Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum
.
Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
article index - [here]
 tomorrow - Santa on train - from WESTBURY
12/12/2019 - UK General Election
15/12/2019 - Santa Special - Melksham
15/12/2019 - GWR Timetable recast
16/12/2019 - Network Rail Surgery, BWT
24/12/2019 - No GWR trains, Paddington
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 07, 2019, 04:31:48 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[88] Railway station vs train station
[82] Is there a case for reinstating the line to Clevedon?
[56] Railway bridges struck by road vehicles - merged topic, ongoin...
[53] Wouldn't want this to catch on
[47] Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion
[43] Advent Quiz - 2019
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: What's hidden away on an IET kitchen?  (Read 2557 times)
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7693


View Profile
« on: July 19, 2019, 11:27:58 am »

In the first of an occasional series, I thought I'd highlight the potential the IET kitchens have and at the same time expose the weaknesses of how it is currently being used.

In total there are six fridges on each train.  The image below shows three of them as stocked on an early evening service.  The other three were being partly used for chilled water bottles, and presumably the remaining space is utilised when space for Pullman stocks are required.

Anyway, as you can see from the image there is plenty of lovely cold alcoholic and non-alcoholic drink and the same range that was found on the HST buffets - I would estimate about 60 cans of cold beer along with coke, sprite, wine, vodka and cartons of juice with room for more.  The food range is less impressive (top draw of the middle fridge) but contained two packs of normal sandwiches and half a dozen or so packs of complimentary first class sandwiches.  All of those sandwiches were expiring at the end of the day, and I suspect most of them ended up as waste as this was the level of stock early evening.

The trouble is that all of this was hidden away from the view of the customer, though a trolley service was being provided so more stock was available from there.
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2928



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2019, 11:37:40 am »

The kitchen is also used as a hiding place for the trolley and attendant.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 146


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2019, 01:24:09 pm »

What genius designed the trains with the kitchen at the end, rather than between Standard and First? Could even have put a counter at one end then...
Logged

IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7693


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2019, 01:44:55 pm »

It was largely due to the kitchen being self-contained.  Had it been in the middle of the train then there would have been no public access through it, so you couldn't walk between first and standard.  Unless it was designed with a long narrow public corridor and kitchen (as on a HST) which is a poor use of space.
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7844



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2019, 02:36:02 pm »

It also means the stock can be loaded through the staff door rather than using one of the public ones which wasnít ideal when trains were busy. This was particularly so at places like Plymouth when Pullman stores and equipment needed to be got on board a train already in service.
Logged
Incider
Transport Scholar
Full Member
******
Posts: 78


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2019, 05:53:09 pm »

What genius designed the trains with the kitchen at the end, rather than between Standard and First? Could even have put a counter at one end then...

Kitchen was moved closer to the cab, so the Drivers can get more cups of tea and freebies....  Smiley
Logged
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7844



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2019, 07:34:35 pm »

Here's a few pictures of the layout of the kitchen





Logged
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7693


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2019, 10:06:07 pm »

Stop spoiling my future posts, Bob!  Grin
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7844



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2019, 06:58:33 am »

My apologies.   Iím sure yours will be more considered rather than grabbed in a hurry on the way through for a cab ride!
Logged
WelshBluebird
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 148


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2019, 02:01:54 pm »

In terms of the kitchen location, isn't it mainly just good use of space that wouldn't be available for public use anyway (due to rules regarding space use in leading vehicles above certain speeds)? Or is that just something I read that isn't true?
Edit - turns out this isn't actually the case! Sorry for that and thanks to those who corrected me Smiley
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 03:25:13 pm by WelshBluebird » Logged
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7693


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2019, 02:26:49 pm »

There are design rules, but the IET meets them so it could be an area used for seating - the other end of the train has seating in that area.
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2928



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2019, 02:39:15 pm »

In terms of the kitchen location, isn't it mainly just good use of space that wouldn't be available for public use anyway (due to rules regarding space use in leading vehicles above certain speeds)? Or is that just something I read that isn't true?

I seem to recall earlier statements that the kitchen made use of the crumple zone, whereas a buffet situated between first and standard would use potential seating space.
However as a preceding post states this is no longer the case, and indeed the corresponding space at the other end of the train IS used for seating.

It seems to me that it is only GWRs hatred of buffets that prevented the kitchen being placed between first and standard as on a proper train. By making the kitchen slightly bigger a buffet counter could have been provided.

Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
paul7755
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4663


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2019, 04:40:46 pm »

In terms of the kitchen location, isn't it mainly just good use of space that wouldn't be available for public use anyway (due to rules regarding space use in leading vehicles above certain speeds)? Or is that just something I read that isn't true? )
It has actually been true in the past, and not that long ago.  If you were to read through all the successive railway group standards on the subject (I did this a few years ago) they did go a bit too far with this around the time of the Voyagers being new, but the standards were subsequently changed...

(The standard was GM/RT 2100, Requirements for vehicle structures), and it eventually went through issues 1 - 6 in about 10 years, but I'm having difficulty tracking down online access to them.)

Paul   
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 04:49:07 pm by paul7755 » Logged
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7693


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2019, 05:10:22 pm »

I seem to recall earlier statements that the kitchen made use of the crumple zone, whereas a buffet situated between first and standard would use potential seating space.
However as a preceding post states this is no longer the case, and indeed the corresponding space at the other end of the train IS used for seating.

It seems to me that it is only GWRs hatred of buffets that prevented the kitchen being placed between first and standard as on a proper train. By making the kitchen slightly bigger a buffet counter could have been provided.

As mentioned earlier, there is no wasted space in the kitchen, so to move it to the middle of the train and provide a buffet counter and a passenger walkway, would result in it being longer.  The whole lot, including crew space, takes up around eight metres.  Either that or you would have to reduce the equipment and/or storage space in the kitchen.  At the end of the kitchen there is the on-board crew area comprising two fold down seats in what is the equivalent of the end vestibule at the other end of the train, so you would either have to do away with that, or it would take up space elsewhere. 

GWR did not have input into the interior layout, crazy as that might sound.  How many times do you need to be told that and from how many reputable sources (such as Clarence Yard from the RailUK forum)?  The Kitchen on the GNER sets is also at the end of the train, though they also have the buffet module as discussed before.
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Umberleigh
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 396


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2019, 06:42:43 pm »

GWR certainly did not decide on the interiors of the IETs. That was London commuters, London commuter pressure groups, and MPs with constituencies from which commuters commute on IETs into London.

Hence we have long-distance express trains with engines under the floors, insufficient luggage storage and no buffet. However, they have lots and lots of seats, some without a window (not a restricted view - no actual window)

But they look nice, the HSTs were a bit knackered, and the extra seating capacity is welcome even in the far West. And as yet they havenít broken down at Dawlish.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page