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stuving
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2019, 13:21:22 » |
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It has been updated for the new timetable, and those blocks are now "on GWR▸ " instead of "on any TOC▸ " which should take all the TfL» ones out of the picture. Except it hasn't, the OJPs▸ are only offering the 17:13/18:13/19:13 tfl services and the 17:42/18:42 GWR services when looking at off peak services back to the Reading area despite what restrictions C7 / P7 / J9 etc say I only looked at J9 - for singles from PAD» - and that works as per the timetables. The T3 code being out of sync adds (spurious, I reckon) TVB ranger trips on semifasts, but that's a separate issue. Restriction code C7 (for CDRs▸ from RDG‡) however doesn't work, as you say. It has not had the change from "on any TOC" to "on GWR" made, so it blocks a whole load of TfL trains. Given that that is probably the main ticket being used off-peak out of PAD in the evenings, missing that change is really not clever at all. |
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Jonathan H
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2019, 21:09:36 » |
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My understanding is that all TfL» trains to Reading are charged off-peak in the evening 'peak'
Until TfL start charging their own fares alongside the existing ones. Then, 1600 to 1900 westbound will be charged at peak Oyster▸ / Contactless rates but off peak 'paper' fares. That's what I understand from TfL's words so far - though I've not seen anything clear and specific on this. For example, if TfL's PAYG▸ fares for travel outside their zones match the existing GWR▸ ones, will they be charging more than GWR in the evening peak? Will that count as an anytime fare and allow you to use a fast train? It is, after all, the payment method that sets the fare, not the train - and while GWR have an established system of different trains for off-peak and anytime, TfL don't and have said their fares will be valid on the "adjacent" GWR services (whatever that means). Note that this issue hasn't arisen before, even though GWR operate TfL pricing out to West Drayton, since fast trains don't stop at any of these stations. Also, the paper tickets (sold by GWR until TfL took over the stations) served the same purpose as TfL paper tickets, and were similarly a lot more expensive than peak PAYG and not available as off-peak. None of which applies further out. The TfL single fare finder is clear about how Contactless fares will work from 2 January 2020. https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finderA blanket peak applies when travelling westward from 1600 to 1900 based on the first place you touch in, so in theory someone touching in on the other side of London at 1850 would pay a peak Contactless single from Gatwick to Twyford even if they pass through Paddington well after 1900. (Obviously the converse is true - someone touching in on the other side of London at 1550 would pay off-peak fares regardless of when they pass through Paddington.) Peak fares don't apply on Contactless to any destination through the evening peak for eastbound journeys originating west of West Drayton to any destination. Hitherto, this easement has only applied for journeys into Zone 1. |
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onthecushions
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2019, 00:08:51 » |
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On enquiry at Reading about contactless fare paying, it seems that this only issues singles, i.e go off peak and return off peak (4 touches with the CC) and the system charges you for TWO singles, i.e no CDR▸ !
No information available about capping.
Mess....
OTC
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Jonathan H
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2019, 08:45:00 » |
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On enquiry at Reading about contactless fare paying, it seems that this only issues singles, i.e go off peak and return off peak (4 touches with the CC) and the system charges you for TWO singles, i.e no CDR▸ !
No information available about capping.
Mess....
OTC
Yes, that is right. All of the movement on train fares is towards single ticket pricing. The singles on Contactless will be about half of the current off-peak day returns. No capping will apply initially. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2019/december/tfl-rail-will-operate-services-to-reading-from-15-december"While TfL» is working to deliver capping, customers who should have benefitted from daily capping will automatically be reimbursed to ensure they pay the best fare for their travel." |
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onthecushions
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2019, 17:28:17 » |
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TfL» does in fact publish its contactless fares. For Paddington to Reading their single is £24.40 peak (0630-0930, 1600 - 1900) and £10.60 off peak (2 Jan 2020). This compares with present GWR▸ peak of £25.10 and £20.60 off peak. The GWR CDR▸ is therefore good value compared to TfL's offerings if returning on a "peak" off peak train!
How one could one convince a RP inspector on a daytime Didcot stopper that one had paid contactless to Reading?....
The morning up GWR TT (p30 ofT10 with the red markers) shows some exclusions to OP▸ that I don't understand. The strangest is the 0852 from Reading, barred from Reading to Taplow, then OP except for West Drayton and Hayes!
The PM peak from Paddington looks a little clearer in that it is really from 1650 - 1820 inclusive for semi-fasts (except for the 1756!)
Greetings.
OTC
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stuving
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2019, 18:59:48 » |
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TfL» does in fact publish its contactless fares. For Paddington to Reading their single is £24.40 peak (0630-0930, 1600 - 1900) and £10.60 off peak (2 Jan 2020). This compares with present GWR▸ peak of £25.10 and £20.60 off peak. The GWR CDR▸ is therefore good value compared to TfL's offerings if returning on a "peak" off peak train!
OTC
That's the only fare I have seen (in a press release). They were not in the mayoral decision on price increases, presumably because there were no old fares for them to have increased from. Nor are they on the page about new prices from 2nd January ... presumably because no-one thought of it. If you ask the OJP▸ , it's doing its usual thing of trying to make sense of the rules as fed to it (Thames Valley Branches ranger included - still). So it does offer CPAY as the right choice off-peak, as singles or both way. So it should as it's cheaper, at £10.60 vs £21.20 or half of £21.30. It spoils the effect slightly by flagging the fare option as "advance" - presumably no-one's given it the right flag word yet. However, it doesn't offer the peak CPAY as an option, either way, insisting for example on a day single on the return leg if you choose two single tickets. It should, as it is also cheaper at £24.40 vs £25.90 or half of £48.90. And look, yes, that anytime day return has gone down in price! So as expected the CPAY (single) fares are a little below half the GWR return that's equivalent (sort of). For existing, and zonal, PAYG▸ fares inwards of WDT the same is true except that there are ( AFAICS▸ ) no off-peak paper ticket fares. Hence the odd effect of different peak time rules didn't apply there, but does further out. Presumably - while nothing has been said about altering those TfL rules for this line, it might be implied by the promise about matching GWR fares, and something of the kind is done on Euston-Watford. But the lack of peak CPAY fares on OJP removes the possibility of using that as way of checking what rules are encoded in the data feeds. |
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rogerw
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2019, 19:12:26 » |
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One thing to remember here is that contactless does not give a railcard discount
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I like to travel. It lets me feel I'm getting somewhere.
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Jonathan H
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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2019, 19:58:02 » |
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That's the only fare I have seen (in a press release). They were not in the mayoral decision on price increases, presumably because there were no old fares for them to have increased from. Nor are they on the page about new prices from 2nd January ... presumably because no-one thought of it.
If you ask the OJP▸ , it's doing its usual thing of trying to make sense of the rules as fed to it (Thames Valley Branches ranger included - still). So it does offer CPAY as the right choice off-peak, as singles or both way. So it should as it's cheaper, at £10.60 vs £21.20 or half of £21.30. It spoils the effect slightly by flagging the fare option as "advance" - presumably no-one's given it the right flag word yet.
However, it doesn't offer the peak CPAY as an option, either way, insisting for example on a day single on the return leg if you choose two single tickets. It should, as it is also cheaper at £24.40 vs £25.90 or half of £48.90. And look, yes, that anytime day return has gone down in price!
So as expected the CPAY (single) fares are a little below half the GWR▸ return that's equivalent (sort of). For existing, and zonal, PAYG▸ fares inwards of WDT the same is true except that there are (AFAICS▸ ) no off-peak paper ticket fares. Hence the odd effect of different peak time rules didn't apply there, but does further out.
Presumably - while nothing has been said about altering those TfL» rules for this line, it might be implied by the promise about matching GWR fares, and something of the kind is done on Euston-Watford. But the lack of peak CPAY fares on OJP removes the possibility of using that as way of checking what rules are encoded in the data feeds.
All contactless fares are available on TfL's 'single fare finder. https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder?intcmp=54716Type in the stations and then select 2020 fares. |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2020, 14:40:18 » |
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From GWR▸ website Contactless is here TfL» Rail is now accepting Contactless pay as you go on its local stopping services from London Paddington to Reading. Customers can use their contactless debit or credit card or mobile device to pay for a journey by touching in and out. TfL Rail started running the stopping services in December as part of its staged plans to introduce the Elizabeth line. To support TfL Rail’s payment option, we are also offering Contactless pay as you go at all stations on the direct line between London Paddington and Reading. There is no difference in fares between TfL Rail and GWR services. A morning peak between 06:30 and 09:30 covers east and westbound services. An afternoon peak between 16:00 and 19:00 applies only on westbound services.At this stage, Contactless pay as you go is not available on GWR’s branch lines (Henley, Marlow and Windsor). Instead, customers need to touch in or touch out at the gateline of the mainline station and be in possession of a ticket for use on the branch line. If you hold a weekly, monthly or longer season ticket you’ll be better off staying with that option. Customers wishing to use Railcards or take advantage of discounts will not be able to make a Contactless payment. Contactless is only available for adult rate fares. Please ask station staff if you’d like help choosing the right payment for your journey. Delay Repay is available for customers using Contactless. To claim, customers need to provide a statement from TfL Rail showing the journey they are claiming for. The best way to do this is to set up an online TfL account, to check your journey history online. To find out more about Contactless visit the TfL Rail website here. shocking way of claiming delay/repay though - enough to put you off using contactless frankly! |
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2020, 16:23:51 » |
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A morning peak between 06:30 and 09:30 covers east and westbound services. An afternoon peak between 16:00 and 19:00 applies only on westbound services.
Moving away from the TfL» Rail v GWR▸ in the Thames Valley corridor scenario, the above statement is not true. Many eastbound journeys through Paddington during the evening Peak are charged at Peak rates - something only recently introduced by GWR. For instance, an afternoon single from Exeter St Davids to Southend rises from £88.50 before 2pm thru £136.30 in the Off-Peak window to £151.70 in the Peak window. Splitting the ticket at PAD» is the cheapest option with such journeys. |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2020, 16:28:46 » |
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But that text IS referring to GWR▸ /TfL» Rail in the Thames Valley - you can't suddenly & arbiterally apply the ssame text to elsewhere on the GWR network :-)
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stuving
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« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2020, 19:42:34 » |
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A morning peak between 06:30 and 09:30 covers east and westbound services. An afternoon peak between 16:00 and 19:00 applies only on westbound services.
Moving away from the TfL» Rail v GWR▸ in the Thames Valley corridor scenario, the above statement is not true. Many eastbound journeys through Paddington during the evening Peak are charged at Peak rates - something only recently introduced by GWR. For instance, an afternoon single from Exeter St Davids to Southend rises from £88.50 before 2pm thru £136.30 in the Off-Peak window to £151.70 in the Peak window. Splitting the ticket at PAD» is the cheapest option with such journeys. I'm not sure why you'd see those higher fares offered. Currently, for travel tomorrow, the OJP▸ offers the super off-peak single at £102.30 throughout the afternoon and evening. It has no restrictions in the evening that I can see for this journey. The £88.50 fare is a 1st Advance, and that is offered (even for tomorrow) on a random selection of trains, including the 14:53 that arrives PAD 17:12 and to leave Liverpool St 1817 - which is surely evening peak. |
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2020, 20:45:47 » |
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A morning peak between 06:30 and 09:30 covers east and westbound services. An afternoon peak between 16:00 and 19:00 applies only on westbound services.
Moving away from the TfL» Rail v GWR▸ in the Thames Valley corridor scenario, the above statement is not true. Many eastbound journeys through Paddington during the evening Peak are charged at Peak rates - something only recently introduced by GWR. For instance, an afternoon single from Exeter St Davids to Southend rises from £88.50 before 2pm thru £136.30 in the Off-Peak window to £151.70 in the Peak window. Splitting the ticket at PAD» is the cheapest option with such journeys. I'm not sure why you'd see those higher fares offered. Currently, for travel tomorrow, the OJP▸ offers the super off-peak single at £102.30 throughout the afternoon and evening. It has no restrictions in the evening that I can see for this journey. The £88.50 fare is a 1st Advance, and that is offered (even for tomorrow) on a random selection of trains, including the 14:53 that arrives PAD 17:12 and to leave Liverpool St 1817 - which is surely evening peak. OK - so I misread the Super Off Peak Single price, but gwr.com is currently only offering these prices for Fri 03/01/20......  |
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stuving
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2020, 22:58:00 » |
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There is a big difference of opinion between the two journey planners ( GWR▸ and NRE‡) here. They agree about which trains still have the £88.50 1st advance available, including at 13:40 and 14:53 (others have disappeared recently). I picked an SSS on the 14:15 on NRE, which was only offered by GWR as an SDS. It passed me on to GWR.com to buy it, where I saw: We're sorry but this ticket is no longer available. Choose a different time or date of travel and search again. Now, that could happen with an Advance - but for any form of off-peak ticket, when you buy it doesn't alter its availability! So they are reading the rules (or should that be runes?) differently. It doesn't matter if GWR coded this restriction code ( XC▸ , according to BRFares) - they are still meant to implement the same data feeds as all other OJPs▸ . As I said, I see no outward restrictions in that code after the morning peak. The creation of these restriction codes is a very cumbersome system, easy to get wrong. For example, at the bottom of the text version of that code (at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/XC) it says this: Seasonal variations Time restrictions on GWR set fares will be lifted from XX until XX January inclusive. So that'll be the 20th, then? I also note that if you select an SSS on GWR's OJP, and follow a link for information, it says this: The times when you may use your Super Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you are making and you will be advised when buying your ticket. The National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which tickets are valid for your journey. Is that saying they know they don't implement validity rules in full? And you'd be advised to us the NRE OJP first and transfer to GWR.com to buy the ticket? |
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lordgoata
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« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2020, 00:42:29 » |
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It passed me on to GWR▸ .com to buy it, where I saw: We're sorry but this ticket is no longer available. Choose a different time or date of travel and search again. I had that the other day - picked a route on NRE‡, when it went through to GWR it said it was not available. Went back to NRE, selected GA▸ and purchased it from them no problem what so ever. When I tried to pick the route myself on GWR rather than on NRE, it refused to offer it to me. When I selected something close, it insisted on me having a Single Advance rather than the Return I wanted - stuffed if I could work out how to get the return. The GWR site really is absolute shite. |
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