Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 04:15 26 Apr 2024
- Rail Britannia?
- Will Labour’s plan make train tickets cheaper?
- Labour pledges to renationalise most rail services
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
26th Apr (2016)
DOO strikes start on Southern (link)

Train RunningCancelled
26/04/24 05:34 Oxford to Didcot Parkway
26/04/24 06:04 Didcot Parkway to Oxford
26/04/24 06:34 Oxford to Didcot Parkway
26/04/24 07:07 Didcot Parkway to Oxford
26/04/24 07:34 Oxford to Didcot Parkway
26/04/24 08:07 Didcot Parkway to Oxford
22:03 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
Short Run
09:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
13:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 26, 2024, 04:18:25 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[193] Labour to nationalise railways within five years of coming to ...
[102] access for all at Devon stations report
[56] Bonaparte's at Bristol Temple Meads
[34] Lack of rolling stock due to attacks on shipping in the Red Se...
[23] Cornish delays
[22] Theft from Severn Valley Railway
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Heathrow Airport: Sadiq Khan backs proposed new rail link  (Read 1048 times)
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1936


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« on: September 06, 2023, 07:10:29 »

I feel we have been down this route before?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66716733 [Helps if I include the link!]

Presumably there are still some magic money trees about. Heaven forbid that anybody would connect this to ULEZ money.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 07:35:24 by CyclingSid » Logged
Marlburian
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 692


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2023, 13:35:41 »

"The line has been proposed by Heathrow Southern Railway Ltd (HSR) which has said it could open in 2027/28."

Bets on that, anyone?
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5410



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2023, 16:20:18 »

I have very mixed feelings about this proposal.

I am in general pro-rail. Electric trains are far preferable to fossil fuel burning cars, and this advantage will increase as more of our electricity is produced renewably.

On the other hand, better access to an airport will presumably encourage more flying which is virtually 100% fossil fuel powered, and likely to remain so.
Is this proposed railway to be conductor rail powered ? Presumably yes as the surrounding network is. Expect some years of inquiries, reviews, and studies by the health and safety industry as they seek to prevent it, or render it unaffordable.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4362


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2023, 16:37:58 »

"The line has been proposed by Heathrow Southern Railway Ltd (HSR) which has said it could open in 2027/28."

Bets on that, anyone?

I agree a bit optimistic, 2030 would even be a challenge.  Most of the infrastructure is in place, just a relitvly short section of tunnel from T5 to the abandoned old Stains / West Drayton line which will need renewing.  There would need to be an AC to DC (Direct Current) traction power change over in that area.

And then there is the matter of rolling stock
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5410



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2023, 18:44:48 »

If this goes ahead, about which I am rather doubt full, would battery power be worth considering for the branch ? No worries regarding elfansafety approval for new conductor rail installations, and simpler than dual voltage stock. Charging would be easy when running on the already electrified portions of the route.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 19:09:11 by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7170


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2023, 00:09:41 »

I feel we have been down this route before?

Quite. HSR appeared in 2017, with a proposal not very different to Airtrack.

I don't think there ever was a thread on this forum about the original Airtrack proposal and its consultation and TWA application and public enquiry (2008-2011). In 2011 the Government declared they would not fund it at all, and BAA first "deferred" their application and then the next year dropped it altogether. They gave as reasons the objections raised to the effect on some level crossings, and difficulty finding all the money themselves.

The technical issues, such as what kind of electricity was possible where, were all worked out at that stage, as was the route and issues such as the SSSI on Staines Moor. The most difficult bit to build was the recreation of the western chord which bypasses Staines East Junction - across what is now the car park of Elmsleigh Shopping Centre, and requiring the demolition of the access bridge over the A308. When WRAtH (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) came along that created a conflict for access to T5 from the west, but what the status of that is now in unclear - if Airtrack can rise from the dead ...

I still think (as I did at the time) that it would be easier, and make more sense, to start with just the line from T5 to a new bay at Staines Station, and extend Heathrow trains (presumably Crossrail) to it. That provides connectivity, even with the need to change trains and (to go west) platforms. If the demand is there, linking to the lines eastwards is relatively easy. I suspect the chord would never be justified except as a bribe by BAA, though of course if Heathrow expansion ever becomes a real project BAA will need some of those.
Logged
Ralph Ayres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 337


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2023, 16:18:46 »

The Mayor of London's "backing" seems to be little more than responding cautiously to a question from one of his main political opponents Caroline Pidgeon in a way that wouldn't allow her to score political points.  There's certainly no public money or any practical support offered.

For the various reasons noted by others, I think this is about as likely to happen as Go-op are to run trains any time soon, and like broadgage I'm at best ambivalent about its desirability anyway.  I'm surprised to see that there are some experienced and I'd say well-respected former railway managers on the board, but discussing projects like this may well be a pleasant way to spend retirement or at least the twilight years of a career while getting some extra income so long as they're not expected to fund it.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page