A place in the country - Advent quiz, 5th December 2020

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I looked up Harling Road to Norwich at around 9.30am today, a direct service of about 20 miles at the most to the nearest city, and it showed me the first train was after 4pm today and was the one in the opposite direction to Thetford, where you had to change onto a train that went back through the station non-stop. The fare is nearly ?16 single (two tickets needed). So I suspect very little used.

Harling Road	06:52	07:53
Norwich	07:25	08:30

Norwich	15:48	17:27
Harling Road	16:14	17:57

3794 passengers, year to 28.2.2020 - that's perhaps 7 people into Norwich each weekday, and 7 back. Logical service designed for the specific office job / education in Norwich market, but without a late return.  Can't help wondering if traffic would increase if the 19:27 off Norwich called to set down on request ... but then does the railway want to bother with that little bit of extra business on what is supposedly a mass transit system?

Current service pattern and numbers vaguely reminiscent of Melksham figures a decade or two ago - but then we have a station with a walkable urban catchment.  Back to the top theme of the post ... residential development around a station such as this, better service, and people who work from home most days would love it, commuting into Cambridge or London on their carnet of 10 trip in 2 months for the price of 9.

[PhilWakely]

9 Clunderwen  ??

[eightonedee]

Helped by the "joint line" clue - 7 is Little Kimble

[grahame]

9 Clunderwen  ??

Helped by the "joint line" clue - 7 is Little Kimble

Little Kimble was on my "rat run" from Luton to Oxford, Swindon and beyond ... way back in the last millenium (on the road, not rail).

Both correct - which leaves just no. 1.   The two above (and Harling Road) were not easy ... and I suspect No. 1 is even harder.

[grahame]

1.

Final question, from "Far far away" ... it's Commondale. (please forgive if that spell checks to Commendable ) - http://new.passenger.chat/better/map.html?stn=COM . An example of a station on the line to Whitby - which winds it way through the countryside serving a collection of remote stations, with six trains each way per day including an extra morning one in recent times that now makes the line useful for commuting into Middlesbrough ...

[stuving]

Final question, from "Far far away" ... it's Commondale. (please forgive if that spell checks to Commendable ) - http://new.passenger.chat/better/map.html?stn=COM . An example of a station on the line to Whitby - which winds it way through the countryside serving a collection of remote stations, with six trains each way per day including an extra morning one in recent times that now makes the line useful for commuting into Middlesbrough ...

I was puzzled by that map - what looks like a sizeable river coming out of one side of a bridge with not even a tiny stream going in on the other. Is it a very wiggly canal and a tunnel? A river culverted under a road? No, it seems, just dodgy cartography.

[grahame]

I was puzzled by that map - what looks like a sizeable river coming out of one side of a bridge with not even a tiny stream going in on the other. Is it a very wiggly canal and a tunnel? A river culverted under a road? No, it seems, just dodgy cartography.

Yep, you're right ... it needs attention.   I have been learning the OSM (Open Street Map) file format over recent weeks and translating co-ordinates and tags into graphics. More work to be done and in due course these maps may become more sophisticated, more richly featured, and less quirky.  At least they are recognisable already, and I'm delighted to be highlighting footpaths, cycleways and railways to a greater degree than in most mapping, at the expense of subduing roads to some extent.  I know I have a water problem.

[grahame]

It would appear that I have three types of waterway in Commondale ...

firstgreatwestern@www:~/httpdocs/map/osm$ grep -B 2 waterway COMw.osm
  <nd ref="1187102320"/>
  <tag k="name" v="Commondale Beck"/>
  <tag k="waterway" v="river"/>
--
  <nd ref="4525312113"/>
  <nd ref="248815298"/>
  <tag k="waterway" v="stream"/>
--
  <nd ref="8057362208"/>
  <tag k="source" v="OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey)-OpenData_StreetView"/>
  <tag k="waterway" v="ditch"/>
firstgreatwestern@www:

To give you an idea of the data volume - I have nearly 1 Mbyte of data for Commondale - 12,000 lines of data and you're looking at just 9 of them.   Something approaching quarter of a million lines of data in something like this (which again has quirky waterways!):

[grahame]

It would appear that I have three types of waterway in Commondale ...

And it would appear that the problem is the the "Commondale Beck" is designated as a river from a standing start in the data set - nothing else flowing into it and nothing I can yet see that says "look, this is a little river".

In 1489 station maps I have so far on our server, there are 4701 rivers, 11623 streams, 1896 ditches ... I would have expected the Commondale setup to have a stream flow into a river, or something else (list follows of the various water features I have across all the maps), but apparently not - not even a pond or a moat.

      1   <tag k="waterway" v="boat"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="derelict_dock"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="dog"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="fairway"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="floodgate"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="mill"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="narrows"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="planned"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="pumping-station"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="stop_lock"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="water_gauge"/>
      1   <tag k="waterway" v="water_level_monitor"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="debris_screen"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="dry_dock"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="intermittant"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="lake"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="port"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="proposed_canal"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="traffic_light"/>
      2   <tag k="waterway" v="winding_point"/>
      3   <tag k="waterway" v="basin"/>
      3   <tag k="waterway" v="elsan_disposal"/>
      3   <tag k="waterway" v="fish_pass"/>
      3   <tag k="waterway" v="moat"/>
      3   <tag k="waterway" v="tidal_channel"/>
      3   <tag k="waterway" v="winding_hole"/>
      4   <tag k="waterway" v="feature"/>
      4   <tag k="waterway" v="lock"/>
      4   <tag k="waterway" v="marina"/>
      4   <tag k="waterway" v="spillway"/>
      5   <tag k="waterway" v="steps"/>
      6   <tag k="waterway" v="sluice"/>
      7   <tag k="waterway" v="barrier"/>
      8   <tag k="waterway" v="abandoned_canal"/>
      8   <tag k="waterway" v="buoy"/>
      9   <tag k="waterway" v="disused_canal"/>
      9   <tag k="waterway" v="floating_barrier"/>
      9   <tag k="waterway" v="junction"/>
      9   <tag k="waterway" v="milestone"/>
      9   <tag k="waterway" v="pumping_station"/>
      9   <tag k="waterway" v="sluice_gate"/>
     10   <tag k="waterway" v="fuel"/>
     10   <tag k="waterway" v="pond"/>
     10   <tag k="waterway" v="proposed"/>
     10   <tag k="waterway" v="pump_out"/>
     10   <tag k="waterway" v="waste_disposal"/>
     13   <tag k="waterway" v="brook"/>
     13   <tag k="waterway" v="flow_control"/>
     15   <tag k="waterway" v="mooring"/>
     18   <tag k="waterway" v="yes"/>
     37   <tag k="waterway" v="sanitary_dump_station"/>
     38   <tag k="waterway" v="waterfall"/>
     44   <tag k="waterway" v="dam"/>
     54   <tag k="waterway" v="water_point"/>
    103   <tag k="waterway" v="boatyard"/>
    120   <tag k="waterway" v="derelict_canal"/>
    158   <tag k="waterway" v="turning_point"/>
    283   <tag k="waterway" v="dock"/>
    757   <tag k="waterway" v="weir"/>
   1550   <tag k="waterway" v="lock_gate"/>
   1896   <tag k="waterway" v="ditch"/>
   3114   <tag k="waterway" v="drain"/>
   3125   <tag k="waterway" v="canal"/>
   4701   <tag k="waterway" v="river"/>
  11623   <tag k="waterway" v="stream"/>

I have noted to take a specific look at what future developments do to the Commondale map ...

[stuving]

It would appear that I have three types of waterway in Commondale ...

And it would appear that the problem is the the "Commondale Beck" is designated as a river from a standing start in the data set - nothing else flowing into it and nothing I can yet see that says "look, this is a little river".

In 1489 station maps I have so far on our server, there are 4701 rivers, 11623 streams, 1896 ditches ... I would have expected the Commondale setup to have a stream flow into a river, or something else (list follows of the various water features I have across all the maps), but apparently not - not even a pond or a moat.

Funny - there's a clearly visible river runs through it (the bridge) in Google Earth's pictures!

[grahame]

Funny - there's a clearly visible river runs through it (the bridge) in Google Earth's pictures!

The dataset is excellent but not perfect ... looking at the list of waterway features, I note both a pumping-station and 9 pumping_station (s) which looks like an error.   18 waterways of type "yes" have me scratching my head, as does the one of type "dog"!

Edit to add - dog poo bins (presumably alongside the Lee navigation) on the Bush Hill Park map area - http://new.passenger.chat/map/stationmap.php?tlc=BHK&wider=1 - NOT being shown on the map.