Fares - London to Plymouth - 1902, 1967 and 2020. Compare to income.

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Here are (sorry - GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) example) Paddington to Plymouth timetables from 1902 just before the Castle Cary to Taunton cutoff was opened, in the late 1960s at a low point for rail, and as scheduled from Monday.

I was asked elsewhere for a comparison of the fares in relation to incomes .... some further data ...

Fares -

1902 (from charts in timetable)
37/4 23/4 18/8 single (1st, 2nd and 3rd class)
65/4 40/10 - return (1st and 2nd class)
40/10 75/8 111/- 1, 2, 3 horses
99/6 72/- 4 and 2 wheel carriages
"average annual earnings in 1908 were 70 pounds"

1967 (from ABC Rail Guide)
91/- 61/- (1st and 2nd class)
"Ordinary return fares are double single, unless otherwise stated"
890.3 "Average employment income"

2020 (from BRFares website)
189.70 146.50 (1st and standard class, single, anytime, any permitted route)
There's a large number of lower priced alternatives - e.g.
106.20 super off peak standard class return
"average household disposable income (after taxes and benefits) was 30,800"
"Average Salary in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) (2020) 29,600 per year

Salaries / incomes from various sources - very hard to find like for like comparisons across the years - before/after tax, individual/household, etc ... also very hard to compare train fares - I don't know how many people paid full fare in 1902; these days it's a minority.

[GBM]

Salaries / incomes from various sources - very hard to find like for like comparisons across the years - before/after tax, individual/household, etc ... also very hard to compare train fares - I don't know how many people paid full fare in 1902; these days it's a minority.

Would have thought most people pay the full fare these days? Apart from season tickets and some on discount railcards.
Even less are aware of split ticketing.
Possibly because it's easier just to pay the full amount than searching and working out discounts, etc.

[didcotdean]

The third class fare in 1866 was also 18/8 showing a long period of price stability by regulation, although typical 'labouring' earnings then were more like ?26 per annum so less affordable.

Go back a bit further and in 1844 the third class fare to Exeter was 20/6, by goods train only.

The cheap fares in Victorian times were by excursion whether by the railway company themselves or a third party.

[Robin Summerhill]

Salaries / incomes from various sources - very hard to find like for like comparisons across the years - before/after tax, individual/household, etc ... also very hard to compare train fares - I don't know how many people paid full fare in 1902; these days it's a minority.

Would have thought most people pay the full fare these days? Apart from season tickets and some on discount railcards.
Even less are aware of split ticketing.
Possibly because it's easier just to pay the full amount than searching and working out discounts, etc.

That may well depend on how you define a full fare because there are effectively three of them, anytime off peak and super off peak. Given the penal rates that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and others charge for non-regulated anytime fares I suspect the number of sales of those between PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) and PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) is relatively low, mainly bought by people who have specific appointments at the other end who have no option but to travel at a particular time.

In the two earlier years, 1902 and 1967, there was still a rigid pence per mile basis for calculating ordinary fares, so when using those tickets there would be no advantage in split ticketing. This may not be the case today.

A form of split ticketing could save money in 1967 and was practised by a friend of mine when going on our spotting outings because he wasn?t entitled to privilege tickets whilst I was. Day returns were generally only available for local journeys up to, say, 50 miles and to major destinations such as London, Bristol, Cardiff, Plymouth etc. When we wanted to go to Manchester for example, he would buy a day return from Bristol to Hereford and on arrival race to the booking office to buy a day return to Shrewsbury. At Shrewsbury he would repeat the process again and buy a day return to Manchester.

This was only possible even then because dwell times were much longer than they are today and, of course, in 1967 the only things that were on line were the trains we were using. I doubt whether it would have made much difference on a PLY to PAD journey in those days, but I can?t of course be certain of that.

I can?t speak for 1902 because I wasn?t around at the time but, as that was a time when there were no pensions to speak of and no paid holidays, leisure traffic over so long a distance would have been minimal. 1967 and 2020 are very different in that respect.

[grahame]

We  use the "Day Return" explanation of split ticketing to this day, Robin, to add a veneer of morality to the return fares from our local stations (Chippenham, Melksham) to London.

Melksham to London is only available as a period return ... if you are doing a day trip, peak both ways (possible again as from this week with the re-instatement of the 18:52 from Swindon), we let you know that you can save money by buying the journey as two day returns - Melksham to Didcot and Didcot to Paddington. Just need to make sure you're on a train that actually calls at Didcot.

Here's a diagram showing the effect of more and faster services on journey time to destinations if you arrive randomly at Paddington, and looking back to how it was in 1967 and 1902




P.S. Day trip - you can save even more by single to Didcot, day return to London, super off peak single back from Didcot to Melksham - "why pay anytime fares if part of the journey is off peak"

[Robin Summerhill]

We  use the "Day Return" explanation of split ticketing to this day, Robin, to add a veneer of morality to the return fares from our local stations (Chippenham, Melksham) to London

Anomalies have always existed in the railway fares structure, even before the introduction of market pricing, or charging what the market will bear. I?m not defending it, or justifying it but, to quote Walter Cronkite, just saying ?that?s the way it is.?

My example of Bristol to Manchester in the 60s was perhaps a good example, and the thinking behind it may still apply today. In those days the view was probably taken that very few people wanted or would want to make a day return Bristol to Manchester, even if a day return fare was offered. The view may have been taken that the few people who wanted to make that journey were likely to make it whether or not a discounted fare was offered, so there would be no financial advantage to the railway in offering one.

The same may apply today to Melksham to Paddington. To play devil?s advocate for a moment, is GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) under any legal or moral obligation to offer lower fares which might only result in a reduction in income and not attract any new passengers? I don?t know but I somehow doubt that such a clause is in the franchise.

It could be argued that it was harder to save money by split ticketing in1967 than it is today. Fares were not published as such and you had to go to a station or a travel agent to find out, or of course use the phone. These days fares are published online, there are various websites that will find the best deal for the uninformed passenger, organisations like MRUG^» (Melksham Rail User Group - site) who will advise people of these quirks, and those who won?t or can?t be bothered to avail themselves of the information find themselves paying a bit extra.

Is that unreasonable?  I?m just posing the question, not answering it!

[grahame]

The same may apply today to Melksham to Paddington. To play devil's advocate for a moment, is GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) under any legal or moral obligation to offer lower fares which might only result in a reduction in income and not attract any new passengers? I don't know but I somehow doubt that such a clause is in the franchise.

Some interesting questions.

My understanding is that under the franchise ...

... tickets sales staff were obliged to offer you the lowest cost ticket for the journey requested.   So if I approached the gentleman in the ticket office in Chippenham on a Saturday morning and ask for a return to Paddington for three people, coming back later that day, he should offer me a super off peak group save return. He is not obliged (or even likely to) let me know we could save money by buying Chippenham to Didcot and Didcot to Paddington tickets.

... other outlets do not have to offer a full range of products, nor is there anything about the best value product "above the fold". The extreme illustration just down the line at Melksham ... the front panel will offer you an off peak rather than a super off peak though you can find the super off peak on a lower menu.  A line of text printed above the machine includes a list of what it does not sell, including group save in that list.  It will issue group saves if you pre-order them online.

I do not know if these rules have changed or will change under EMA or ERMA or following management contracts.

As a generality, GWR are well aware of the good practise of selling people best value tickets from their product range, and that does mean that business decisions and policies, and what is morally correct (however you defined that latter) tend to align. Sadly, just a generality ... the price for 3 for a day trip on Saturday from Melksham to London from the front panel of the machine is about sixty pounds more than you would pay if you delve down and understand the back menus, and almost twice what you would pay if you ordered super off peak group save ahead of time online, or realised that the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) was not an "opportunity to buy the ticket" and buy from the train manager in spite of the penalty notices.  I am aware that there are technical limitations of a TVM ... and almost certainly there will be a follow up this post to point it out.  But I suggest that the rail industry has had plenty of time to sort out the issues that encourage people unknowingly to buy the higher price product than they need far too often, and in this case has not acted.

[ChrisB]

If you know the ticket(s) that you want and they're valid for the journey you (all) want to make - and the ticket(s) are not available from whatever sales outlet(s) they provide at the station - then yes, you are permitted to travel and buy at the first sales outlet (guard on train, booking office at first change/destination if not at any changing station) without argument or fine.