Problems with IET trains from April 2021

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

On the bright side, while we were 10 minutes down at Didcot after following a freight that was a bit late into its loop, the Oxford connection was held for a minute to spare the transfer people the hour's wait.

I doubt it was held for connections, but because the previous departure to Oxford left a few minutes late.  Puzzled as to why there would be an hours wait had it not connected though?

Yes, apologies, I've slandered the railway - being completely conditioned to expect a 50+ minute wait at Didcot for connections to Oxford from the West, the service is now more frequent and there's another at 13:38. The platform staff too were helpfully, er, encouraging people to move at speed between the platforms for the connection.

Mark

[GBM]

10:20 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:27
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:27 will no longer call at Tiverton Parkway and Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.

1A84 - non stop Exeter to Reading.
Guessing door problems at the intermediate station calls.
Surely if there is a door problem, it will be present at all the station stops?

[broadgage]

Perhaps a fault with selective door opening ? In which case the train could stop normally at major stations with long platforms, but not at shorter platforms.
Or possibly low power, that would result in loss of time after a station stop.

[a-driver]

Or possibly low power, that would result in loss of time after a station stop.

Indeed. Low power. A problem that a number of the fleet are suffering.

Realistically you have to wonder how long the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) can continue operating like this.

[broadgage]

And as with cracks and other faults, are hitachi paying any compensation for the daily lack of units ? And for the often poor performance of those that do enter service.

I suspect that hitachi have found some wiggle room that avoids such payments. They probably have better lawyers than do GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), HMG, Etc.

And btw does anyone know what caused the low power problem ?

[ChrisB]

There is a supply contract with Hitachi, and they get penalised iif the required stock units don't get delivered as contract, yes

[a-driver]

There is a supply contract with Hitachi, and they get penalised iif the required stock units don't get delivered as contract, yes

Sort of.  I believe the contracts between the 800 and 802 are different, the 800 contract being more stringent.

Long term, the running costs COULD be huge.  The engines can’t cope with what’s being asked of them to the point that there’s a significant backlog with the supplier for repairs.  Around a third of the fleet is currently running around with at least one engine isolated. 

[Timmer]

Long term, the running costs COULD be huge.  The engines can’t cope with what’s being asked of them to the point that there’s a significant backlog with the supplier for repairs.  Around a third of the fleet is currently running around with at least one engine isolated. 

I’m willing to bet the majority of sets with engines out are the 802s operating to/from the Southwest which have to work the hardest travelling the most distance ‘off the wires’. Those trains that are running with at least one engine down will put more strain on the engines that are working.

How sad a rolling program of electrification making it’s away towards the Southwest was never implemented. It’s going to cost more in the long run by not continuing to electrify.

[a-driver]

I’m willing to bet the majority of sets with engines out are the 802s operating to/from the Southwest which have to work the hardest travelling the most distance ‘off the wires’. Those trains that are running with at least one engine down will put more strain on the engines that are working.

How sad a rolling program of electrification making it’s away towards the Southwest was never implemented. It’s going to cost more in the long run by not continuing to electrify.

Actually, the last list I saw was probably an equal split.  800’s are quite often finding themselves down in the South West though.

They either need to ditch the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train), relocate to operators where they’ll spend the majority of the time under the wires and bring a new fleet into to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).  Failing that, extend electrification.  Reliability isn’t going to improve with age.

[broadgage]

Agree that it is time to give up on the wretched units, at least for long distance express services.
Relocate them to other operators, if anyone wants them, or redeploy them within GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to outer suburban, regional, or other secondary routes.
Use on slower services should increase reliability as the engines are less stressed.

Build new intercity trains for long distance services.
Bi mode locomotive or power car at each end, no underfloor engines.
Fixed formation 9 or 10 car, or the same total length as a 5+5 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train).
Padded seats. Space for surfboards and other holiday luggage
A proper full sized buffet car, not a micro buffet or parked trolley.
A kitchen to permit of full meal service on selected trains.
design speed of 125 mph on OHLE and 100 MPH on diesel. The reduced speed on diesel would reduce the cost, size and weight of the engines, with a minimal effect on performance.

Train formation, from London end.
Power car, staff access only, storage of catering supplies and emergency equipment.
A first class and kitchen car. About 25 first class seats.
B First class with about 50 seats and two toilets.
C first class with about  44 seats, one wheelchair space and two toilets, one accessible.

D standard class, about 80 seats, two toilets.
E standard class, same as D.
F standard class, about 70 seats, two wheelchair spaces, two toilets one wheelchair accessible. Train mangers office.
G Buffet car, central buffet servery, with longitudinal seating each end of the vehicle. about 40 seats.
H standard class, about 80 seats, two toilets.
I standard class about 80 seats and two toilets.
J same as I.
Power car, staff access only. light express freight, heavy luggage, emergency equipment.

Total 2 and a half first class coaches with about 120 seats.
Total 7 standard class coaches with about 510 seats.
I have assumed relatively long vehicles as used for IETs. With more conventional coaches capacity per vehicle would be reduced, but a total of 11 coaches should be possible without the total length being excessive.

[TaplowGreen]

Yes, I'm sure that's going to happen, the Unicorn I was just speaking to agrees as well.

[GBM]

Agree that it is time to give up on the wretched units, at least for long distance express services.
Relocate them to other operators, if anyone wants them, or redeploy them within GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to outer suburban, regional, or other secondary routes.
Use on slower services should increase reliability as the engines are less stressed.

ooooooooooooooz gonna pay for it!
The Treasury are already cutting back.  Can't see them seeing sense just before an election

[grahame]

Agree that it is time to give up on the wretched units, at least for long distance express services.

I do recall that previous generations of trains have had issues in their early years.  I took a ride on an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) yesterday from Bristol Temple Meads to Chippenham.   Perfectly reasonable for my journey; fast enough and on time (thank goodness - 5 minute connection at Chippenham onto a sparse train to Melksham)

Mind you - I hardly ever use any "long distance expresses" on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - living in the middle of their patch, all my journeys are more regional that long distance, so perhaps I'm biased by personal use.

[Clan Line]

redeploy them within GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to outer suburban, regional, or other secondary routes.
Use on slower services should increase reliability as the engines are less stressed.

5 car, absolutely perfect for Portsmouth - Cardiff..............even with 1 or 2 engines down.

[IndustryInsider]

Agree that it is time to give up on the wretched units, at least for long distance express services.
Relocate them to other operators, if anyone wants them, or redeploy them within GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to outer suburban, regional, or other secondary routes.
Use on slower services should increase reliability as the engines are less stressed.

Build new intercity trains for long distance services.
Bi mode locomotive or power car at each end, no underfloor engines.
Fixed formation 9 or 10 car, or the same total length as a 5+5 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train).
Padded seats. Space for surfboards and other holiday luggage
A proper full sized buffet car, not a micro buffet or parked trolley.
A kitchen to permit of full meal service on selected trains.
design speed of 125 mph on OHLE and 100 MPH on diesel. The reduced speed on diesel would reduce the cost, size and weight of the engines, with a minimal effect on performance.

Train formation, from London end.
Power car, staff access only, storage of catering supplies and emergency equipment.
A first class and kitchen car. About 25 first class seats.
B First class with about 50 seats and two toilets.
C first class with about  44 seats, one wheelchair space and two toilets, one accessible.

D standard class, about 80 seats, two toilets.
E standard class, same as D.
F standard class, about 70 seats, two wheelchair spaces, two toilets one wheelchair accessible. Train mangers office.
G Buffet car, central buffet servery, with longitudinal seating each end of the vehicle. about 40 seats.
H standard class, about 80 seats, two toilets.
I standard class about 80 seats and two toilets.
J same as I.
Power car, staff access only. light express freight, heavy luggage, emergency equipment.

Total 2 and a half first class coaches with about 120 seats.
Total 7 standard class coaches with about 510 seats.
I have assumed relatively long vehicles as used for IETs. With more conventional coaches capacity per vehicle would be reduced, but a total of 11 coaches should be possible without the total length being excessive.

I'm really not sure why I'm bothering, but let's put aside the fact that there's no chance of it happening.

You're proposing a train that has eleven vehicles (nine carriages and two power cars), adds a buffet, removes a kitchen (compared with a 10-car IET formation), adds a TM^‡(resolve)'s office, increases the number of toilets by six from 10 to 16, increases first class seating by 50, reduces standard class by 70 seats (so 20 less seats overall)...and still manages to fit within the overall length of an existing 10-car IET?  Oh, and presumably there's more seats at tables and no leg room compromises?

Quite apart from the folly of suggesting a 12% reduction in standard class seating at a time where some leisure trains are already packed to the rafters, I'd love to see a crayonista make that work as an actual working design!