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stuving
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2021, 16:41:12 » |
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Do you remember this thread here in 2013?More Infill Electrification Announced
« on: 13-12-2013, 08:38:00 »
DaFT» » announced today the sparking of Bolton to Wigan, and a wider study of electrification in the North of England. The route announced today appears to have come out of the blue, and given that it was a national announcement, I'm surprised that Newbury to Bedwyn wasn't included. However, the rail element of the announcement does appear to have had a somewhat northern bias. Well, exclusively northern to be precise. Then a couple of posts later ...
What prescient posters we all are.
Much of this was discussed in "More North West Electrification", back in August.
The DfT» seem to be responding to our pearls of wisdom.
Seasons greetings,
OTC
But it's only 13 miles, after all. |
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infoman
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2021, 16:49:49 » |
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The distance of 13 miles of "up"and "down" double track at 78 million
Could we there assume Bristol Parkway to Bristol TM‡ at 6 miles with four tracks would cost about the same(78 million?)
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onthecushions
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2021, 17:21:27 » |
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I think that Wigan NW to Lostock Jn is actually 13 track miles miles so the cost is £6M/stm!
It's important that NR» delivers the service on time and within the agreed budget so at least the Treasury knows where it stands with railway investment.
OTC
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2021, 18:36:58 » |
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I’m sure we all hope that the three deferred sections of the GWML▸ follow suit soon.
For me, Didcot to Oxford (and maybe on to Hanborough) would be a clear priority of the three, followed by Chippenham to Bristol TM‡ and then Bristol Parkway to Bristol TM.
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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stuving
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2021, 19:25:46 » |
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I think that Wigan NW to Lostock Jn is actually 13 track miles miles so the cost is £6M/stm!
It's important that NR» delivers the service on time and within the agreed budget so at least the Treasury knows where it stands with railway investment.
OTC
That cost does include several platform extensions, and those don't come cheap these days. When last announced as a firm commitment in 2013 that was against an estimated cost of £37M, for electrification alone. But that was in another era, "before GW▸ ", and also before that firm commitment turned out to be quite crumbly. But I think you are right, that NR are on probation, doing a few small and middling electrification projects chosen largely for political reasons. If they can do the work to match the cost and schedule estimated for it then "decarbonisation here we come". At least in theory, since the Treasury will keep saying it all costs too much, though ultimately they have no way of making it cost less than it costs. So I guess the rate of spend will be fixed and it will come down to NR working as fast as they can for that. |
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Electric train
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2021, 19:45:52 » |
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I’m sure we all hope that the three deferred sections of the GWML▸ follow suit soon.
For me, Didcot to Oxford (and maybe on to Hanborough) would be a clear priority of the three, followed by Chippenham to Bristol TM‡ and then Bristol Parkway to Bristol TM.
There is a plan for Didcot - Oxford which is dependent on the completion of the Oxford station remodelling and Botley Rd bridge replacement much of the original planed for 25kV infrastructure would have been trashed by these 2 schemes. I cannot see wires reaching Hanborough, more likely is Eastwest Rail. For Chippenham to Bristol there are a few issues to resolve regarding Sydney Gardens. Like Oxford the biggest show stopper is the remodelling of Bristol Temple Meads, CP7 is the likely time scale for Bristol TM to get wired and this would mop up Bristol TM to Parkway. The formation of GBR▸ which hopefully will take some of the elements of railway planning currently done by the ORR» and DfT» this could remove layers of bureaucracy allowing the railway industry to specify and select equipment more suited to its needs. There have already been some changes to NR» Electrification and Plant policy in regards to OLE▸ minimum wire heights how the wire can be supported. The policy even allows the posiblity of new third rail electrification!!!! |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2021, 20:28:13 » |
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Onthecushions is clearly a George Orwell fan from this thread title, combining as it does that writer's Road to Wigan Pier with the less obviously relevant Homage to Catalonia. Olé!
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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onthecushions
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2021, 11:15:46 » |
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There is a plan for Didcot - Oxford which is dependent on the completion of the Oxford station remodelling and Botley Rd bridge replacement much of the original planed for 25kV infrastructure would have been trashed by these 2 schemes. I cannot see wires reaching Hanborough, more likely is Eastwest Rail.
I'm less clear why the Oxford wiring should be delayed by the bridge and station works and not proceed immediately. We were told that the Oxford track re-modelling for electrification was complete and allowed for the new platform. The wiring scheme had proceeded a long way with much piling done and the Radley ATS▸ completed, so a full plan (and contract) was clearly in place. While the bridge replacement is a major task, the masts /stanchions would have been well apart and a blockade would be needed anyway with all wires and cables temporarily lifted, not that complicated - hardly trashing 10 miles of wiring. Hanborough depends on the LEP» but it seems unreasonable to wait for many years to fill this important gap. It depends on the value placed on the passenger experience. OTC |
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Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 5208
There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2021, 17:53:03 » |
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[...]
For Chippenham to Bristol there are a few issues to resolve regarding Sydney Gardens. Like Oxford the biggest show stopper is the remodelling of Bristol Temple Meads, CP7 is the likely time scale for Bristol TM‡ to get wired and this would mop up Bristol TM to Parkway.
[...]
Are there issues at Sydney Gardens? This is something I have a bee in my bonnet about, hence my post on the FoSBR» website last year. Is there an outstanding issue that I've missed? I absolutely agree that Bristol will have to wait until the refurbishment work at Bristol Temple Meads is complete. 25kv wires and a forest of scaffolding just doesn't sound like a healthy mix. CP7 is not too far off, and it'll be nice to have a bit of a break from long engineering possessions! |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2021, 18:59:25 » |
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The policy even allows the posiblity of new third rail electrification!!!! Special pleading here - juice rails from Wokingham to Ash junction and Shalford junction to Reigate NOW! |
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Electric train
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2021, 22:43:34 » |
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The policy even allows the posiblity of new third rail electrification!!!! Special pleading here - juice rails from Wokingham to Ash junction and Shalford junction to Reigate NOW!There are some high hurdles to get over for new exposed top contact third rail (eg the standard Southern system) the significant change is NR» Electrification policy now allows third rail to be considered to extend / expand current third rail routes, this change has the support of the ORR» and DfT» . The hurdles are all the risk assessments removal of public footpath crossing and where practical road level crossings, lineside fencing has to be enhanced each station has to be risk assessed for the public access to live conductors. The current rules and working practices for staff to access an energised railway are unlikely to be accepted by the ORR for future new third rail electrification. Its just not simple |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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onthecushions
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2021, 14:17:19 » |
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I get the impression that the key distinction may rest in the difference between an extension of existing 3rd rail and new third rail. I don't think there is any wish for the latter and the former is really de minimis.
It's a pity ORR» 's assessors don't have to use the services whose electrification they choose to block. A risk assessment can go either way depending on the scoring and the breadth of factors considered.
I also hope that this new wiring to Wigan may prompt Merseyrail to go dual voltage for its extensions and even consider some conversion.
OTC
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2021, 04:43:59 » |
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The policy even allows the posiblity of new third rail electrification!!!! Special pleading here - juice rails from Wokingham to Ash junction and Shalford junction to Reigate NOW!Although new conductor rail electrification is now allowed in theory, I doubt that we will see any beyond VERY minor extensions. Someone, somewhere, has still got to "sign of" a new conductor rail installation as being "as safe as is reasonably practical" whilst knowingly rejecting available and safer alternatives such as OHLE or battery power. That person could be at risk of prosecution years later when a trespasser is killed. |
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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onthecushions
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2021, 09:55:24 » |
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I can't see the distinction between killing a trespasser by kinetic rather than electrical energy. A kJ from any source applied to the human body will have a similar effect. Having been on several services that have hit people, the train does generally win.
What is legally necessary is that inadvertent harm is not caused. Injury caused by trespassing on an active railway whether electrified or not cannot be inadvertent.
A small exception has been made for unmaintained fencing where children have gained easy access.
OTC
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