FGW HSTs: worst refurbishment ever?

[whole diary]

[woody]

Barry Doe writing in the latest rail magazine says the following and I have to say that I agree with him totally on this one,

"Now that I have used them a number of times. I think First Great Western^s HST^▸ (High Speed Train)^s have received the worst refurbishment ever to have been undertaken on any train.
Standard class being virtually all airline-style travel must now be a turn-off for families and even when there are tables some have very restricted views owing to window pillars. Some airline seats have no view at all for the same reason.
This is a train configured to maximise seat numbers for commuter journeys like London-Reading with no regard for the fact people also have to endure them from London to Penzance.
In first class the leather seats are slippery and will no doubt get extremely hot if the sun shines on them in summer.
It is also the only first class without reading lights, occasioned by the fact that the strip lights in the ceiling are so vivid you supposedly don^t need them.
In fact, the lighting even spoils views out of the window on sunny days. It cries out for softer lighting and individual reading lights, as other trains offer.
I recently switched from one at Westbury on to one of the South West Trains^ superb two-car Class 158s, normally used on the new ^figure of six^ Salisbury-Romsey-Southampton-Eastleigh-Romsey service. Surely the most luxurious suburban train in the country, it really showed the HST and I^d far sooner do London-Penzance in the Class 158.
 Whats your view?

[Conner]

If I was going to London from Camborne and I had my way I would use the one a week SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Class 159 service. Up on a sunday back on a Saturday, it is much nicer and much more comfortable.

[swlines]

I'd tend to agree with you there Conner, although you cannot get advance purchase fares on that particular route on SWT^▸ (South West Trains). You'd have to get TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) inter-available tickets to Exeter

[Lee]

I recently switched from one at Westbury on to one of the South West Trains^ superb two-car Class 158s, normally used on the new ^figure of six^ Salisbury-Romsey-Southampton-Eastleigh-Romsey service. Surely the most luxurious suburban train in the country, it really showed the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and I^d far sooner do London-Penzance in the Class 158.

Here is a photo of the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Class 158 interior :

[swlines]

Missing the PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System)/CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) I might add, Lee.

[Lee]

Missing the PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System)/CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) I might add, Lee.

Indeed. January 2008 photo, and I recall you mentioning the impending arrival of Celia.....

Fear all, if you haven't already heard Celia in action - Celia will be on all SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Diesel stock by May I'm told.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[Btline]

Yes, but surely the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service is much slower than the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) - even if it is more reliable, cheaper and more comfortable.

[dog box]

Well i couldnt disagree more Woody!!!!! The HST^▸ (High Speed Train) refurb places it much better than a voyager and 175/180
we all know it was designed to fit as many people seated as possible, point is many HSTs are running about full and standing.
so what actually did you want FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to do ,just tart up the old seats and get even more people to stand. thalf the lights can easily be switched off you know
The first class seats are exactlythe same as the GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) Mallard stock but trimmed in leather and the much loved SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158 refrubishment is near enough the same as FGW 158 refurb on of course the units which have retained the original seats.
So i really dont know what you have got to moan about

[John R]

New covers on the existing seats would have been an awful lot cheaper, as well as leaving more tables and retaining one's line of sight down the coach. Flip the buffet car round and convert it to standard class - how many times I wonder are 2 1st class coaches completely full - , and you would have created more standard class seats than achieved by the refurb.

And then, with all that money FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would have saved, they could have invested elsewhere on the franchise, either by retaining the Adelantes that suddenly everyone wants (including First Group), or on the local services.

Yes the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s were starting to look shabby, but they didn't need to gut them and rebuild everything inside to sort that and provide a decent passenger environment. 

[Steve44]

The only thing i'm personally against is the lighting. I was trying desperately to look out of the window yesturday, but all i could see was myself... desperately trying to see out of the window!

[swlines]

The first class seats are exactlythe same as the GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) Mallard stock

Not convinced by that - the design of the seats is different IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).

[Conner]

The first class seats are exactlythe same as the GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) Mallard stock

Not convinced by that - the design of the seats is different IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).

But they are the same as the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 159 First Class seats although SWT don't have leather.


Will Celia work all the way to Penzance?

Yes, but surely the SWT service is much slower than the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) - even if it is more reliable, cheaper and more comfortable.

Slower, Yes.
More reliable, usually, definatly more punctual.
Cheaper, No, FGW: 2 adults and 3 children on a Famil Railcard from Camborne to London on the cheapest fare: ^56 overall, very cheap.
More comfortable, definatly.

[swlines]

Celia will be in operation all the way to Penzance assuming the traincrew set it up. I doubt it will be in operation on the Sundays until Exeter as I can't see FGW^▸ (First Great Western) showing their traincrew how to use the PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System) system (although it is awfully simple).

The cheapest return fare from Camborne to London Paddington is 2x^28.35 singles (^56.70) for all passengers in the new fares system. The cheapest fare available on the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) with through ticketing with no splitting it is ^141.75, Saver Return.

With splitting at Exeter St Davids, it can work out to ^58.60 saver return valid on any train, and 2x^22.70 singles (^54.85) for all passengers. Although this fixes you to certain trains after Exeter St Davids, it does allow you to get any train after Exeter giving you additional flexibility. Not quite as cheap as FGW singles, though.

Edit: There is also AP singles available from Plymouth to Waterloo and back, 2x^26.45 working out to ^52.90. You can then add ^27.35 Saver Returns onto that, working out to ^80.25. Only ^23.55 extra than FGW for additional comfort. This ticket combination would work on any Plymouth to London South West Trains services.

[Conner]

Thanks for that.
Won't convince my Dad though, he refuses to do Plymouth-Camborne on a unit and says it is one of those horrible little trains, although it is six car.
Journey time is longer as well.

[swlines]

The Penzance/Plymouth/Paigntons are booked 3.159 to Exeter, where either 3.159 or 6.159 are attached.

Journey time difference is negligible compared to services that either stop all shacks via the Berks and Hants, or go via Bristol during engineering works. I must add though, if you're going FC^‡(resolve) go on FGW^▸ (First Great Western), standard class go for SWT^▸ (South West Trains).

Also, it depends where you are staying in London. For instance, if you are staying in south, west or east London, it is quicker overall to go via SWT (change into West London Line at Clapham, for east London change into W&C at Waterloo). If you're staying in north London then almost definately go via Paddington - with the exception of areas like Epping or Cockfosters.