FGW HSTs: worst refurbishment ever?

[whole diary]

[Conner]

The Penzance/Plymouth/Paigntons are booked 3.159 to Exeter, where either 3.159 or 6.159 are attached.

Journey time difference is negligible compared to services that either stop all shacks via the Berks and Hants, or go via Bristol during engineering works. I must add though, if you're going FC^‡(resolve) go on FGW^▸ (First Great Western), standard class go for SWT^▸ (South West Trains).

Also, it depends where you are staying in London. For instance, if you are staying in south, west or east London, it is quicker overall to go via SWT (change into West London Line at Clapham, for east London change into W&C at Waterloo). If you're staying in north London then almost definately go via Paddington - with the exception of areas like Epping or Cockfosters.

Well, we will be fixing ourselves to certain trains for all the journey anyway so I have got.
^45.40 for the Exeter-London leg.
And ^22.70 for the Camborne-Exeter leg.
Only ^68.10 overall which I may be able to convince my family with as it will mean a table.
The train Camborne-Exeter would also be a Cross Country HST^▸ (High Speed Train).
No idea where we are staying yet, it will be in August, up Friday back Monday.
Definatly not going FC, no point really for a family.

[devon_metro]

Some people in this thread think that the original seats should have been reupholstered. The old IC70 seats are not safe in a crash and shards of plastic come from them. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have an excellent safety record and therefore decided to replace the seats, but all new seats must be high backed, so they are. As for the seats being low - i'd say they were actually quite high.

[swlines]

Some people in this thread think that the original seats should have been reupholstered. The old IC70 seats are not safe in a crash and shards of plastic come from them. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have an excellent safety record and therefore decided to replace the seats, but all new seats must be high backed, so they are. As for the seats being low - i'd say they were actually quite high.

Can't quite believe that completely - shards of plastic ok, seats not safe in a crash - what train seat isn't really?

The real way of doing it would have been creating a new IC70 seat that complied with current legislation.

[stebbo]

Let's get real here - the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Mk III refurbs are a disaster. If you travel by rail you don't expect Ryanair standards and, as I've said elsewhere on this site, the pink seat top grab handles resemble a row of Mickey Mouse ears.

To my mind. BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Western Region was generally OK, Great Western Trains were pretty good, but FGW - forget it. The overall service just gets worse year on year. Be done and renationalise - oh, but change the wretched government first. The Conservative nationalisation was a disaster but the Labour government's milking of rail passengers (along with most every other section of society) is just a scandal.

[John R]

Some people in this thread think that the original seats should have been reupholstered. The old IC70 seats are not safe in a crash and shards of plastic come from them. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have an excellent safety record and therefore decided to replace the seats, but all new seats must be high backed, so they are. As for the seats being low - i'd say they were actually quite high.

I think that's me. It's the first I've heard that the seats weren't considered safe, and does give a rationale as to why they were replaced. I'm surprised that this wasn't more widely publicised, either in reports on previous accidents, or in extolling the benefits of the refurb.

And they are much too high. But it's too late to do anything about it now.

  

[Trowres]

There was a time when travelling by train was a pleasurable experience. Unfortunately the refurbished HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have just about killed any enthusiasm I have for travelling on them. Had the opportunity of some bargain fares on holiday, but couldn't quite bring myself to dragging the family along, so "train ride" slipped further and further down the agenda until it fell off the end.

[devonian]

I like the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) - comfortable seats and my legs fit! Loads of leg room - only danger is, I might fall asleep!

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) - unless you're a midget then your legs don't fit - my knees fit just by the ridge that runs below the table and if there is someone next to me then they generally get fed up with the footsie and leg rubbing from me trying to get comfy.

Voyagers are good for leg room too - SWT - would not want to be on one any longer than the 30 mins from Exeter to Newton Abbot.

[vacman]

Old HST^▸ (High Speed Train) seats were awful, the airline ones had no legroom, there was that horrible non moveable arm rest, if your tall then your head had nothing to lean on as the seats were so low, you had too look at everyone else in the coach as there was no seat in front to hide behind. The new refurb seats have far more leg room, the seats are a little harder but prop you into a more comfortable (and back-friendly) posture, power points for mobiles, admittedly there are less tables but that means less people standing so i'm all for that and when working on them passengers are always complimenting how nice they are!

[woody]

Let's get real here - the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Mk III refurbs are a disaster. If you travel by rail you don't expect Ryanair standards and, as I've said elsewhere on this site, the pink seat top grab handles resemble a row of Mickey Mouse ears.

To my mind. BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Western Region was generally OK, Great Western Trains were pretty good, but FGW - forget it. The overall service just gets worse year on year. Be done and renationalise - oh, but change the wretched government first. The Conservative nationalisation was a disaster but the Labour government's milking of rail passengers (along with most every other section of society) is just a scandal.

Could not agree more, most people who would use FGW HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) from Devon and Cornwall wil bemoan the loss of once a great train for longer distances.Just watch an empty HST being boarded at Penzance or Plymouth,its always the very limited table seats that people rush for first.I recently saw a lighty loaded HST leaving Penzance with all the limited table seats occupied and most of the airline seats empty,say no more.
The busines model being forced on FGW by the Dft reflects the overwhelming domination of the commuter market on the franchise.Combine a train that is no longer suited to the longer haul to Devon/Cornwall with the slow rail route west of Exeter and its no wonder that people here are turning to improved road and air links for the longer haul in these parts when it should be the other way round.Thankfully the loss of longer distance passenger here is being made up by a boom in local travel within the two counties encouraged by very cheap local fares.For instance a Penzance to Paddington train will often see far more people leaving the train at Plymouth(day trippers from Cornwall) than Boarding it for onward destinations as I experienced boarding the up "limited" at Plymouth last Saturday morning.Coach A where I was was virtually empty as we left Plymouth

[west49th]

I took one of these trains today.

The standard class configuration is more like that of a bus than of a long-distance train.

Terribly destructive of any sense of companionship - whether for families, or friends travelling together.

But that's so typical of the old FGW^▸ (First Great Western) regime. No emotional intelligence whatsoever.....

[FarWestJohn]

The wonderful Mk 3 carriage has been totally wrecked by First. After years of train travel I have stopped using them for long trips. Who wants to look at a seat back or worse have no window when one of the pleasures of rail travel was to look at the scenery. They are no longer suitable for five hours from Cornwall. In the past I have done day trips from Cornwall but I would not even consider it on these refurbished trains.

The interior layout may be OK for commuter shuttles but even then the end doors make the station dwell time too long.

First should have made two fleets and left the long distance versions with the previous internal layout.

Reading the comments this appears to be the case as people using the trains for day to day commuting like the layout for working with their laptops etc etc but people using the train for long distance trips especially as groups find them awful.

Travelling on an up HST^▸ (High Speed Train) at Camborne on Saturday many people were getting in after Trevithick day and there were many comments about 'where are are the tables?' and seats not lining up with the windows.

The 150/153 and 158 refurbishments seem good from what I have seen. To me it is only the Mk 3s that seem so retrograde.

I do agree with the comments about the comparison between SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158/159s and a refurbished First Mk3. The SWT units are a real pleasure to travel in and you can see everything and no sign of that horrible pinky mauve colour!!

On another note, was there a temporary timetable yesterday, Sunday, for the Falmouth line? I was waiting for the 1604 from Falmouth Docks which breezed in about 1620 and left after no rush about 1625. I pointed out to one of the train crew the timetable said 1604 and she said that was wrong. Even the new May timetable shows it as 1604. Anyone know for my trip next week?

[Lee]

On another note, was there a temporary timetable yesterday, Sunday, for the Falmouth line? I was waiting for the 1604 from Falmouth Docks which breezed in about 1620 and left after no rush about 1625. I pointed out to one of the train crew the timetable said 1604 and she said that was wrong. Even the new May timetable shows it as 1604. Anyone know for my trip next week?

Revised Bank Holiday branch line times for next week can be found in the link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2341.msg17497#msg17497

[vacman]

Let's get real here - the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Mk III refurbs are a disaster. If you travel by rail you don't expect Ryanair standards and, as I've said elsewhere on this site, the pink seat top grab handles resemble a row of Mickey Mouse ears.

To my mind. BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Western Region was generally OK, Great Western Trains were pretty good, but FGW - forget it. The overall service just gets worse year on year. Be done and renationalise - oh, but change the wretched government first. The Conservative nationalisation was a disaster but the Labour government's milking of rail passengers (along with most every other section of society) is just a scandal.

Could not agree more, most people who would use FGW HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) from Devon and Cornwall wil bemoan the loss of once a great train for longer distances.Just watch an empty HST being boarded at Penzance or Plymouth,its always the very limited table seats that people rush for first.I recently saw a lighty loaded HST leaving Penzance with all the limited table seats occupied and most of the airline seats empty,say no more.
The busines model being forced on FGW by the Dft reflects the overwhelming domination of the commuter market on the franchise.Combine a train that is no longer suited to the longer haul to Devon/Cornwall with the slow rail route west of Exeter and its no wonder that people here are turning to improved road and air links for the longer haul in these parts when it should be the other way round.Thankfully the loss of longer distance passenger here is being made up by a boom in local travel within the two counties encouraged by very cheap local fares.For instance a Penzance to Paddington train will often see far more people leaving the train at Plymouth(day trippers from Cornwall) than Boarding it for onward destinations as I experienced boarding the up "limited" at Plymouth last Saturday morning.Coach A where I was was virtually empty as we left Plymouth

I really don't know where you get the idea that less people are travelling long distance from Cornwall! do you have anything to back it up? when working London services I find that there are a hell of a lot MORE long distance passengers than there was 10 years ago! The internal refresh is down to personal choice but I very rarely get complaints, most long distance commuters (yes we even have some of those these days! I know a couple of Tru-Padd commuters who travel two or three times per week) prefer the refurbs as they can hide themselves in an airline seat and no be distracted all the way to Padd, there are a few moans and groans about lack of tables but regular commuters have been (rightly so) prioritised by cramming in more seats so less of them have to stand, something HAD to be done about overcrowding and now it has. As for having two seperate fleets, well that will happen eventually as the 2+7 sets will be high density (the coaches that currently have 2 tables per coach) and the buffet sets, 2+8, will be Low density sets with 4 tables per coach, which incidently is the SAME amount of tables as a voyager which are far worse trains than refreshed HST's!

[woody]

Let's get real here - the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Mk III refurbs are a disaster. If you travel by rail you don't expect Ryanair standards and, as I've said elsewhere on this site, the pink seat top grab handles resemble a row of Mickey Mouse ears.

To my mind. BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Western Region was generally OK, Great Western Trains were pretty good, but FGW - forget it. The overall service just gets worse year on year. Be done and renationalise - oh, but change the wretched government first. The Conservative nationalisation was a disaster but the Labour government's milking of rail passengers (along with most every other section of society) is just a scandal.

Could not agree more, most people who would use FGW HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) from Devon and Cornwall wil bemoan the loss of once a great train for longer distances.Just watch an empty HST being boarded at Penzance or Plymouth,its always the very limited table seats that people rush for first.I recently saw a lighty loaded HST leaving Penzance with all the limited table seats occupied and most of the airline seats empty,say no more.

I really don't know where you get the idea that less people are travelling long distance from Cornwall! do you have anything to back it up? when working London services I find that there are a hell of a lot MORE long distance passengers than there was 10 years ago! The internal refresh is down to personal choice but I very rarely get complaints, most long distance commuters (yes we even have some of those these days! I know a couple of Tru-Padd commuters who travel two or three times per week) prefer the refurbs as they can hide themselves in an airline seat and no be distracted all the way to Padd, there are a few moans and groans about lack of tables but regular commuters have been (rightly so) prioritised by cramming in more seats so less of them have to stand, something HAD to be done about overcrowding and now it has. As for having two seperate fleets, well that will happen eventually as the 2+7 sets will be high density (the coaches that currently have 2 tables per coach) and the buffet sets, 2+8, will be Low density sets with 4 tables per coach, which incidently is the SAME amount of tables as a voyager which are far worse trains than refreshed HST's!

Everone is entitled to their opinion, thats what forums are all about and of course working for FGW is bound to effect that opinion will it not.Thankfully I and others here are free spirites.
Many people I have spoken to would pefer to travel on a SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158/159 than those dreadful refurbed HSTs.Personally I now think there is a case for re-drawing the FGW franchise regards Devon and Cornwall.Terminate FGW services at Exeter and let them get on with running their commuter railway and hand over Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance section to SWTrains,redouble Exeter/Salisbury to speed up that route to provide a real altenative to FGW as was  proposed by SWTrains a few years ago when 20 year franchises were being mooted.(Just look how successful the 20 year Chiltern Railways franchise has been).The parallels between the competing Virgin West Coast/Chiltern and FGW/SWT are quite striking.Of course it wont happen after all FGW have been allowed to get away with  blue murder for 2 years and the dft dont care a damn about transport  investment in Devon and Cornwall beyond improving road and air links,all they are concerned with is getting their premiums from franchisees,which on FGW means keeping the commuters happy at any cost even if its longer distanced passenger are marginalised.

[Jim]

Give the 158's a few months to fall apart!