Vivarail chosen for fast charging trial on the Greenford branch

[whole diary]

[GBM]

Paths on realtime trains for 230001 to make its way to Reading depot tomorrow.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/servic ... 6/detailed

Link not working for me!

[Ollie]

This is the one you want https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00487/2024-02-16/detailed

[BBM]

Tim Dunn is aboard and reporting live on X (link to thread):

https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1758447007469895732

[johnneyw]

Theres a lot of eyes watching this trial.all going to plan batterybtrains could appear on a few of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s branch lines.....

I'm wondering if any of those are with Metrowest in mind.

[Witham Bobby]

Tim Dunn is aboard and reporting live on X (link to thread):

https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1758447007469895732

He's extremely fortunate to have found a workable 5G (or even 1G) signal in this neck of the woods, with which to post his video

[grahame]

Remind my why the West Ealing to Greenford service is not overground?



Or perhaps The Siemens Line - https://www.siemens.com/global/en/company/about/history/stories/on-track.html

[anthony215]

Theres a lot of eyes watching this trial.all going to plan batterybtrains could appear on a few of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s branch lines.....

I'm wondering if any of those are with Metrowest in mind.

I think it could go on Severn beach services if it just shuttled between Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Severn Beach etc.

Certainly the figures from today have surprised everyone unit did the trip just using 45% of the  charge on the batteries the engineers saying it could have done 120 miles between charges. Well have to see how it performs on tje Greenford branch now. No doubt all going to plan well see more 230s on the other branches in the Thames Valley  possibly other areas too.

Wont be surprised to see other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) consider it

[TonyK]

I think it could go on Severn beach services if it just shuttled between Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Severn Beach etc.

Certainly the figures from today have surprised everyone unit did the trip just using 45% of the  charge on the batteries the engineers saying it could have done 120 miles between charges. Well have to see how it performs on tje Greenford branch now. No doubt all going to plan well see more 230s on the other branches in the Thames Valley  possibly other areas too.

Wont be surprised to see other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) consider it

It was of course a trip with few passengers and no station stops, taking two hours to travel 70 miles. My own EV experience shows that more speed equals less range, and trundling along an empty M5 at 35 mph for 2 hours would probably give me half my car's claimed range again. It is hardly a real-life test in service conditions, but I am still impressed. The technology works, the train moved when asked, and if it only manages 70 miles between charges in real life, that isn't bad. Subject to the fast recharging kit doing what it says on the tin. I think we are still in the early days of battery development. You can't beat those pesky laws of physics, but I am sure big improvements will arrive before too long. This certainly looks a bright idea.

[paul7575]

Remind my why the West Ealing to Greenford service is not overground?

It was looked at a few years ago in a route study, (I forget which one), with a view to LO or even Chiltern taking it over. Neither option made much sense, especially since with the GOB line being recently wired LO were not interested in reintroducing a couple of DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) to their fleet. In Chiltern’s case it was apparently a possibility, but would still have meant awkward empty stock running with no real advantage over GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) operationally.

Paul

[johnneyw]

Theres a lot of eyes watching this trial.all going to plan batterybtrains could appear on a few of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s branch lines.....

I'm wondering if any of those are with Metrowest in mind.

I think it could go on Severn beach services if it just shuttled between Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Severn Beach etc.

Wasn't a Severn Beach - Portishead route once on the cards for Metrowest?  A charging point a each end would work nicely.

[TonyK]

Wasn't a Severn Beach - Portishead route once on the cards for Metrowest?  A charging point a each end would work nicely.

It was, and possibly still is. The various diagram options quoted in the past are updated with each new idea or problem, and Severn Beach to Bath was once part of the mix. That seems to have been superseded by the extension of MetroWest to Westbury (presumably to be renamed MetroWestbury) and other extensions such as to Gloucester instead of Yate. The whole issue will probably only be decided when both phases are up and running, something not helped by Phase 2 overtaking Phase 1 in terms of probable opening date.

As for the use of battery power on either SVB or the Portishead branch - I don't know the answer. I would think it unlikely, at least at first, because of the passenger numbers on SVB and likely heavy use of the Portishead line. The single track on both routes may be a limiting factor, but the biggest hurdle may be infrastructure. AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), the charging mechanism is a little more complex than what I have in the garage, involving huge currents to effect recharging without long dwell times, and lots of batteries to store the power so as to avoid the need for a grid connection rated in the megawatt range. Electrification of a short part of the SVB route and longer portion of the Henbury line could be the impetus for wiring up those branches soon afterwards to allow pure EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) to be deployed. That possibility may mean that other areas have a better case for battery power.

And we are talking about something that has just had its first public outing. A lot more will be known once regular passenger services start somewhere, and I think I would prefer that somewhere to be somewhere else to start with. Better the diesel you know, as they say.

[johnneyw]

There's a bit more about what the test run involved and what the results were here:

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24125628.gwr-battery-powered-train-travels-uk-record-distance/

[Red Squirrel]

[...]

As for the use of battery power on either SVB or the Portishead branch - I don't know the answer. I would think it unlikely, at least at first, because of the passenger numbers on SVB and likely heavy use of the Portishead line. The single track on both routes may be a limiting factor, but the biggest hurdle may be infrastructure. AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), the charging mechanism is a little more complex than what I have in the garage, involving huge currents to effect recharging without long dwell times, and lots of batteries to store the power so as to avoid the need for a grid connection rated in the megawatt range. Electrification of a short part of the SVB route and longer portion of the Henbury line could be the impetus for wiring up those branches soon afterwards to allow pure EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) to be deployed. That possibility may mean that other areas have a better case for battery power.

And we are talking about something that has just had its first public outing. A lot more will be known once regular passenger services start somewhere, and I think I would prefer that somewhere to be somewhere else to start with. Better the diesel you know, as they say.

As you suggest, electrifying Filton Bank would cover half the route from Temple Meads to Henbury. That suggests the use of battery-electric trains could be the way to go on this line. But if WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s 'Branch Line Study' has a positive outcome, we'll be looking at 3tph to Avonmouth and 2tph to Henbury. Would that justify full OHLE?

[TonyK]

As you suggest, electrifying Filton Bank would cover half the route from Temple Meads to Henbury. That suggests the use of battery-electric trains could be the way to go on this line. But if WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s 'Branch Line Study' has a positive outcome, we'll be looking at 3tph to Avonmouth and 2tph to Henbury. Would that justify full OHLE?

I thought about that too, but the type of kit in use is not something designed to draw power from a 25 kV supply. Modifications to Vivarail's idea would probably bump up the cost to more than that of wiring up Henbury, if the cost can be brought down to £1.5 million per track kilometre as Mayor Dan said. Portishead would be another electric kettle of fish though. My guess is that there will be a lot of diesel miles under wires for a long time to come. If, however, electricity does finally come to Avonmouth and Severn Beach, and if there's a bit more dualling of track, would there be a case for having more than 3 tph/2 tph on the branches? That would be cart first in the usual way of doing, but having pure electrics all around Bristol would make it look like a real Metro in a way that diesels can't match.

[anthony215]

As you suggest, electrifying Filton Bank would cover half the route from Temple Meads to Henbury. That suggests the use of battery-electric trains could be the way to go on this line. But if WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s 'Branch Line Study' has a positive outcome, we'll be looking at 3tph to Avonmouth and 2tph to Henbury. Would that justify full OHLE?

I thought about that too, but the type of kit in use is not something designed to draw power from a 25 kV supply. Modifications to Vivarail's idea would probably bump up the cost to more than that of wiring up Henbury, if the cost can be brought down to £1.5 million per track kilometre as Mayor Dan said. Portishead would be another electric kettle of fish though. My guess is that there will be a lot of diesel miles under wires for a long time to come. If, however, electricity does finally come to Avonmouth and Severn Beach, and if there's a bit more dualling of track, would there be a case for having more than 3 tph/2 tph on the branches? That would be cart first in the usual way of doing, but having pure electrics all around Bristol would make it look like a real Metro in a way that diesels can't match.

The crosscity line in Birmingham is a good example to look at. Could even copy what us Welsh are doing on the valley lines. With electric/battery powered trains. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) having a fleet of flirts with level boarding now that be great for the city