can someone shead any light on this for me?

[whole diary]

[shadow]

here's a challange for you
What do you think costs less?

a one hour (give or take some time) direct bath spa to reading adult single with no railcard
a two hour (give or take some time) reading to shepperton, changing twice (so 4 stations in total)
At 6am in the morning




hoping most people here are smart enough to guess the reading to shepperton one...cos you'd be right.
How the heck is it that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can charge ^30 for a one hour direct train from bath to reading, while i could do a two hour journey, changing twice for under half! And the ^30 ticket is an advance!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Yes, the pricing of tickets is a puzzle to many of us, shadow - and, to be fare, it's not just FGW^▸ (First Great Western)! 

My trip from Nailsea to Paddington on Tuesday cost ^75.

My trip from Paddington to Nailsea on Tuesday cost ^13.50.

Difference was, I travelled up in the peak, and home in the afternoon.

 

[shadow]

so, if anyone can master the pricing of train tickets, they could rule the world!
Train fares = strange

[Chris from Nailsea]

"The difference between fiction and reality?  Fiction has to make sense."  Tom Clancy.

Sorry, I seem to have gone off on a literary thread there!   

[swlines]

Quite simple why Shepperton is cheaper - it's a shorter distance by rail and it's priced by a London & South East operator, whereas Reading to Bath is IC^▸ (Inter City).

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, Tom - but I'm not convinced!

There have been many posts here, pointing out that the fare charged does not necessarily bear any relation to the distance travelled!

Differences between operators may be a factor - but even then, they're restricted in what increases they can apply to their fares, for example?

[swlines]

The fares system is very complicated. You need to consider it as several totally different systems.

Advance and walk on.

Behind those, you have London & South East, Intercity, Regional Railways and subsidised fares.

I'll start with walk on. Generally speaking, London & South East fares are at a lower level than Intercity for a similar distance travelled. Compare Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington and Poole to London Waterloo. The fare on BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) is far higher due to, in BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days, IC^▸ (Inter City) being considered of a higher class than LSE services. On the odd cases of fare cost being irrelevant to distance travelled (Bournemouth to Brighton rte Not London valid via Clapham Junction being a good candidate) it is generally because it is assumed that although the common route may be one route, the priced route may be an entirely different one. In the Bournemouth to Brighton example it is assumed that you go via Havant and Shoreham-by-Sea, however, the more common route is most definately Clapham Junction until recently. As a result of this, they have slightly increased the price of a rte Not London and have introduced a rte Barnham at a lower cost.

Regional Railways and subsidised fares are an entirely different kettle of fish. For instance, the Island Line used to be subsidised by up to 60p per passenger mile and so comparing for instance Lake to Sandown (a distance of approx 2 miles) compared to Bournemouth to Pokesdown (both SDS fares) is a difference of approximately ^1.40. It's all to do with the scale of demand based on that particular route. You could have an extremely long distance but have extremely low demand (and hence a high subsidy) resulting in low fares for that route to entice demand, yet one more station down the line could be almost double.

Advance are entirely different fares and should be considered as such. They are of no relevance to the walk on fare system apart from allowing cheaper than normal fares. It is based on a quota control system and based on stations as opposed to distance generally. The majority of fares you will get are based on routeing (for instance, a higher fare would apply to a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) & CONNECTIONS than a FGW ONLY ticket) and station grouping. Consider this: there is an advance purchase group of Oldfield Park - Chippenham, and you want to travel from Keynsham. You may have to pay up to ^10 more than someone travelling from Oldfield Park. However, you may not realise this as the fares displayed are through fares, as that's what you asked for. Ticket selling staff/websites are meant to be impartial - and are/will be, but you have to tell them what you want. Know what you want and you'll get it, don't know what you want and you'll get the quickest ticket to suit the person/website who sells the ticket.

[Conner]

We have CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) groups in Cornwall.
Camborne-Plymouth Child CDR ^4.75.
Penzance-Gunnislake Child CDR ^4.75.
Child Cornish Day Ranger ^5

[Lee]

Regional Railways and subsidised fares are an entirely different kettle of fish. For instance, the Island Line used to be subsidised by up to 60p per passenger mile and so comparing for instance Lake to Sandown (a distance of approx 2 miles) compared to Bournemouth to Pokesdown (both SDS fares) is a difference of approximately ^1.40. It's all to do with the scale of demand based on that particular route. You could have an extremely long distance but have extremely low demand (and hence a high subsidy) resulting in low fares for that route to entice demand, yet one more station down the line could be almost double.

Interesting postscript regarding the Island Line (28/03/2007, link below) :
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2007/03/hsbc_rail_abandons_150000_leas.html#more

Train services on the Isle of Wight have taken a major step towards becoming a self-contained , self-financing operation after the company which leases rolling stock for use on the Island Line agreed to sell the trains for ^1.

The nominal payment sees Island Line operator South West Trains take possession of the units. SWT^▸ (South West Trains) owner Stagecoach has previously paid rolling stock leasing company HSBC Rail ^150,000 a year to lease the carriages , much of which was reimbursed by the government , making the eight and a half mile route one of the most heavily subsidised rail lines in England and costing the taxpayer 77p for each mile travelled per passenger.

The Isle of Wight rolling stock arrangement was cited by the government in June 2006 when it prompted the Office of Rail Regulation to conduct an enquiry looking at whether or not ROSCOs^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) were overcharging train operators to lease aged carriages that previously belonged to British Rail (Transport Briefing 28/06/06). In fact, the Class 483 rolling stock running on the Island Line originally entered service with London Underground in 1938. As a result , HSBC will be glad to have distanced itself from charging to use vintage trains in the event of future scrutiny of leasing costs.

[Shazz]

I still love how a Saver Return works out ^20 cheaper from my local station (Cam & Dursley) > gatwick

Than Bristol parkway (when i still have to use there anyway)

Don't you just love the odd way they do the ticket system

[devon_metro]

One i'm planning to use is the Taunton - Dilton Marsh trick. (Any Permitted)

Taunton - WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) on the other hand is 'Not Bristol' (more expensive that TAU^» (Taunton - next trains)-DMH^» (Dilton Marsh - next trains)) and also 'Any Permitted' which works out more expensive than them all!

[Graz]

Recently Chip and I travelled from Newport- Bath Spa. The direct route via Patchway advance single worked out as over ^10 a ticket, but I put in via Bristol Parkway and got the tickets for ^2 apiece! It's not as if changing at Bristol Parkway was particularly out the way, either!

[shadow]

Recently Chip and I travelled from Newport- Bath Spa. The direct route via Patchway advance single worked out as over ^10 a ticket, but I put in via Bristol Parkway and got the tickets for ^2 apiece! It's not as if changing at Bristol Parkway was particularly out the way, either!

Dont forget the bath - swindon and swindon - cheltenham graz!
cheaper doing swindon - chelt! *thinks* was it an advance though??? I can't remember!!!!

[Steve44]

When going to Cardiff from Didcot, i normally get a return to bath, and a return from bath to cardiff. Doesn't really bother me to change as it works out a hell of a lot cheaper.