Looking to the future - Portsmouth to Cardiff

[whole diary]

[grahame]

So where are the carriages that should be on these services but aren't?  Are they out-of-service (broken down), out-of-service (awaiting routine maintenance), out-of-service (not being paid for, so not running), out-of-service (not enough staff to shunt and couple them), running other services (for example what should be Castle diagrams).

Are they getting them all ‘ship shape and Bristol Bath fashion’ ready for Saturday? 

https://news.gwr.com/news/over-10-000-extra-train-seats-for-this-saturdays-bath-christmas-market

Dunno.   Today's pattern is 3-4-2-3-3-3-3-3 - 24 carriages where a full service of all 5 carriages needs 40.  There MAY be one or two diagrams that are not supposed to be 5 carriages, but most are - as seen by a graphic representation of JournetCheck Short forms:

[grahame]

Following up on my own post (oops!) - the other big stock question is the class 769.  Wikipedia tells us:

The first Class 769 to be delivered to Great Western Rail was 769943 which was delivered to Reading TMD^▸ (Traction Maintenance Depot) in August 2020. It was expected to enter the service in early 2021. The Class 769 was expected to enter service with Great Western Railway between June and December 2021, but later delayed to 2022.

But is that current?   Are they expected for (this) December timetable change / Christmas.  Reminds me of a childhood game - [this year / next year / sometime / never] - I think it was a game along the [marry / snog / avoid] line, but seems appropriate for new trains!

[eightonedee]

There will still just a couple of them parked at Reading depot when I passed on Wednesday

[IndustryInsider]

Dunno.   Today's pattern is 3-4-2-3-3-3-3-3 - 24 carriages where a full service of all 5 carriages needs 40.  There MAY be one or two diagrams that are not supposed to be 5 carriages, but most are - as seen by a graphic representation of JournetCheck Short forms:

There ARE diagrams that are not supposed to be 5-cars as I detailed in a post in the thread you split this one from in August:

From what I have unearthed...
...the following are currently booked as 3-car throughout:  15:23 and 16:23 PMH-CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)
...the following are currently booked as 4-car throughout:  10:23 and 17:23 PMH-CDF
...the following are currently booked as 5-car throughout:  12:23 and 14:23 PMH-CDF
...the following I am unsure about:  11:23 and 13:23 PMH-CDF

The return gets complicated.  For example it looks like the 14:30 CDF-PMH is booked as a 4-car throughout, yet today it was a 5-car from CDF-BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and then a 3-car forward. 

I guess that evens itself out?!  I now have a headache!

Following up on my own post (oops!) - the other big stock question is the class 769.  Wikipedia tells us:

The first Class 769 to be delivered to Great Western Rail was 769943 which was delivered to Reading TMD^▸ (Traction Maintenance Depot) in August 2020. It was expected to enter the service in early 2021. The Class 769 was expected to enter service with Great Western Railway between June and December 2021, but later delayed to 2022.

But is that current?   Are they expected for (this) December timetable change / Christmas.  Reminds me of a childhood game - [this year / next year / sometime / never] - I think it was a game along the [marry / snog / avoid] line, but seems appropriate for new trains!

No it's not current.  No staff have been trained on them yet (except driver managers).

Rumours circulating that they will never enter service with leases expiring next April - see post #2213 onwards:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-class-769-information-discussion.174866/page-74

[grahame]

11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 14:48

Facilities on the 11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 14:48.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 5.

That's an example from today.

Might be "interesting" with SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)'s Portsmouth to Southampton and Southampton to Salisbury services, which provide the second train per hour along this route, suspended until the New Year.

[grahame]

Guess where GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are short-formed today:

06:01 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 09:46
06:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 09:53
06:42 Frome to Cardiff Central due 08:47
07:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 10:52
09:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 12:52
10:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 13:49
10:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 13:52
11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 14:48
13:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 16:45
14:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 17:50
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 17:52
15:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 18:54
17:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
18:24 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 21:47
18:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:49
19:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 22:58
21:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:15
22:30 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:36

All (I think - I may not have clicked through every single one) are 5 carriages down to 3, or 4 carriages down to 2.

To give an idea of "scale", this listing is around a half of the trains on the Cardiff - Portsmouth service.

There's the odd short run too - lack of crew (and it "hides" a short form lack of carriages too!)

06:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 09:53

06:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 09:53 was started from Bristol Temple Meads.
It will no longer call at Cardiff Central, Newport South Wales, Severn Tunnel Jn, Patchway and Filton Abbey Wood.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.

Does it actually matter today?  Is two carriages short on these trains really significant?  GWR think so - from their web site offering advice for the Christmas and New Year period:

Tuesday 27 to Friday 30 December 2022

[snip]

Trains are expected to be very busy.

[Hafren]

Not specifically Portsmouth line, but yesterday didn't feel too busy on the IC^▸ (Inter City) routes. Leaving RDG^‡(resolve) early afternoon (earlier problems resolved apart from some knock-on delays), trains were well used but with good choice of seats. Except the full and standing 5 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) on the Oxford fast - looked like mainly tourists. I've found the 27th very busy in the past, but the news was perhaps putting people off travelling. Some seemed concerned that i was trying to travel, having seen the reports (WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) with major blockade for example) but the national picture doesn't reflect individual routes.

Today does feel busy. Leaving now in Coach G, so not the first car people pile into. Journey just started and and already the luggage stacks are full.

[CMRail]

It just feels to me that this line, along with many other GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) local services in and around the Bristol area, will never be put at ease. December 2019 sold the dream, and that dream became a nightmare with the pandemic. And now, a stubborn DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) who, in the opinion of some, are so set on cuts and cost savings that every aspect of the railway's future is bleak.

With the 769 project scrapped, it's inevitable that 2-car and 3-car trains continue trotting along this line for many years to come. The overcrowding on this line is evident and has been for many many years. Promises elsewhere such as Gloucester-Bristol half hourly, still set to happen in the eyes of the local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament), seem so far from reality on what seems to be a trip back in time...

[Timmer]

I don’t think anyone will be surprised at this service being full and standing with just two coaches. Dare say people were left standing on the platforms of Trowbridge and Bradford on Avon unable to board the train.

09:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 12:45
Facilities on the 09:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 12:45.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4. Service full and standing from Westbury.

[grahame]

Dare say people were left standing on the platforms of Trowbridge and Bradford on Avon unable to board the train.

Very likely in that direction, though a "full and standing" in the opposite direction would more likely disgorge more passengers than were waiting to get on at those stations.

What are the financial ramifications if a train is so short-formed that people are left behind?

* Can people claim delay-repay

* Is there any penalty on the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) for providing a less that specified service to the extent passengers are left behin

* Does the TOC save on line access payments to Network Rail as it's a shorter train?

[ChrisB]

Yes; no; I believe so

[Timmer]

Very likely in that direction, though a "full and standing" in the opposite direction would more likely disgorge more passengers than were waiting to get on at those stations.

Yup, there were problems heading in the opposite direction too:

14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 17:52
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 17:52 will no longer call at Warminster.
It has been delayed at Westbury and is now 18 minutes late.
This is due to overcrowding as this train has fewer coaches than normal.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4. Service full and standing from Westbury.

[grahame]

06:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 09:51

Facilities on the 06:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 09:51.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 5.

07:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 10:51

Facilities on the 07:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 10:51.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.

08:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 11:51

Facilities on the 08:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 11:51.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 5.

08:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 10:56

Facilities on the 08:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 10:56.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.

10:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 13:51

Facilities on the 10:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 13:51.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 5.

Further Information
We're sorry this train has fewer coaches than planned today.

[Clan Line]

For those that haven't come across it, there is a very good thread, on the same subject, here;

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/portsmouth-cardiff-service-potential-solutions.241357/

[grahame]

06:01 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 09:46
10:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 13:52
14:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 17:50
18:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:49

Facilities on the 18:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:49.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 5.

An interesting example ... I suspect that will be adequate in the early morning off Portsmouth and the last arrival back there, but some of the services during the day such as 08:06 from Trowbridge (08:12 B-o-A) into Bath at 08:30 and Temple Meads at 08:45 are likely to be a little busy, as is the 16:57 from Bristol to Severn Tunnel Junction, Newport and Cardiff.