Use of 5 carriage IEPs on Paddington to Cornwall services

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

For instance, the 11:32 from Paddington this morning.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V85805/2023-04-16/detailed#allox_id=0

Aside from the grim inevitability that as soon as they were introduced, 5 carriage trains would be run in place of 9 (often with the accompanying 'Oh, we'd far rather run something short formed than cancel the service completely') how does this happen so regularly? On a 5 carriage IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), there's not many more seats than on, say, a three car 166. This practice makes for a really poor experience, rubs the passengers noses in the fact that we have a capacity-constrained railway, and discourages and excludes people who are unable to stand for long periods or people travelling with children.

Mark

[ChrisB]

Let them cancel it instead? Would that be better?

5 cars are fine for any service beyond Plymouth, and possibly beyond say, Newton Abbot….

[bobm]

Five cars may be better than nothing and while it may be fine for west of Plymouth (which is open to debate) you have to get Plymouth first.

The train quoted was full from London.



I don't know but this may be a hangover from yesterday when many early trains were delayed coming up because of problems at Hemerdon and sets may have ended up in the wrong place.

[Mark A]

And at 14:00 GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s online systems still up for selling a first class advance single from Exeter St Davids to Penzance with a seat reservation - which would be impressive save for the overcrowding on board and also for the (Twitter) account that a passenger bought a 1st class ticket for that train at Paddington and then found that the seat reservation was in the half of the service that was missing.

Mark

[broadgage]

As forecast years ago by my famous crystal ball.
"Flexible train length" means shorter.
I pointed out the shorter trains that resulted from 3 other major renewals, IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) supporters said this will be different.

Slam door DC^▸ (Direct Current) EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) replaced by networkers. 8 car old trains replaced by 6 car new trains, sometimes only 4 car.

4 car and 5 car voyagers replaced full length HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and loco hauled trains. Too short from day one and still too short after many years.

Waterloo/Exeter services, loco hauled trains replaced by 3 car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit). Old trains=seats, new trains=standing.

And now full length HSTSs replaced by five car DMUs. Only going to get worse as the short HSTs are withdrawn and replaced by 5 car IETs.

[IndustryInsider]

5 cars are fine for any service beyond Plymouth, and possibly beyond say, Newton Abbot….

Ironically it’s going to be strengthened to 10-cars from Plymouth.

I would expect more and more services to now be formed of 5 cars given the rolling stock strategy from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) stretching the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) fleet, which is already stretched by the crack repair programme.

[FarWestJohn]

I had a theoretical First class seat on the 1230 from Reading on Saturday 15th April. It arrived as a 5 car unit with standing passengers and a platform load to collect.
I managed to find space to stand until Exeter where I got a seat. The air con was on the blink and the train was baking. We picked up a Hitachi fitter to sort it vaguely.

At Plymouth where the train emptied we joined with difficulty to another unit. That made the train 10 cars through Cornwall and 20 minute plus late.
This meant all the branch connections were missed and Newquay passengers were advised to get off at St. Austell and get a service bus.

By now most of the passengers where in the rear unit which meant they all had to move forward at the short platforms to alight making the train later and later.
At Truro there were two cars of passengers with luggage standing in the aisle to get off. I had to think what would happen in an emergency?

I know these units are appalling but worse when Hitachi cannot supply trains of the correct length to fulfil their contract where are GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) as the service provider?

Standing up for that distance makes you realise how rough riding they are and the whines and bangs from underneath provide a background din.

I felt very sorry for the staff who had to front for the company and no sign of any GWR management.

I don't think myself and many others will use the train to go to London again until Hitachi and GWR get their act together which is a shame as I have previously always enjoyed the trip dozens of times. Everything seems to have gone rapidly down hill since these rattletrap uncomfortable Hitachi units were introduced.

[ChrisB]

Just remember that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) don’t give a hoot about short trains. They are all for saving money

[TaplowGreen]

Just remember that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) don’t give a hoot about short trains. They are all for saving money

Rather like GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

Cancel the train and they have to pay delay repay to the affected customers, but run it at half length and they don't!

Pretty awful experience for those affected but hey, they're only customers after all.....ching ching! 

[IndustryInsider]

Rather like GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

Cancel the train and they have to pay delay repay to the affected customers, but run it at half length and they don't!

I know GWR has to report cancellations and short forms it causes as part of its National Rail Contract, but do GWR directly pay for delay repay claims for trains that are cancelled out of their own pockets?  Or do those payments get claimed back from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) as part of the NRC?

[Timmer]

The preceding two trains before the 11.32 were both just five cars as well.

This happens often enough to believe it will never change unless more carriages are built and inserted. As I write this, a pink pig just flew past the window.

[ChrisB]

Comes out of farebox money that otherwise would get passed to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Bear in mind that their contract with Hitachi will provide for fines where the correct fleet size isn’t produced. So maybe that payment is also included in farebox revenue

[broadgage]

What should be done is to build a fleet of proper INTER CITY trains for long distance services.
Fixed formation 9 or 10 car, no flexible train length as that means shorter.
Bi mode operation.
Locomotive or power car at each end, no underfloor engines.
Padded seats.
Proper buffet car.
Space for surfboards and other bulky holiday luggage.
NOT LIKE AN IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) ! and also not like a voyager !

The remaining IETs to be used on secondary or shorter routes.

[IndustryInsider]

Comes out of farebox money that otherwise would get passed to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Thanks.  So, as I thought, no real direct financial penalty for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) then.

Perhaps that also explains the rumours that the DfT want to get rid of Delay Repay 15 then?

[ChrisB]

Why should GWr be penalised when a short-form is no fault of theirs?

Hitachi are contracted to put out trainsof the correct length & are penalised correctly if they fail to do so