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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2023, 21:06:28 » |
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Reading the reports in the press, I am glad with the verdict such as was delivered. Too many systemic problems to heap guilt on to one man. I offer this opinion as an amateur (but professionally delivering) railwayman myself. I understand the frustrations and heartache of the bereaved and injured but they should be looking higher up the management structure (and safety culture as it was then) for the underlying reasons IMHO▸ .
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Electric train
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« Reply #152 on: June 20, 2023, 18:42:42 » |
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Reading the reports in the press, I am glad with the verdict such as was delivered. Too many systemic problems to heap guilt on to one man. I offer this opinion as an amateur (but professionally delivering) railwayman myself. I understand the frustrations and heartache of the bereaved and injured but they should be looking higher up the management structure (and safety culture as it was then) for the underlying reasons IMHO▸ .
It is this part quoted on the BBC» link He told them: "I'm a human being and sometimes as a human being things happen to you that you are not in control of." so he was negligent but not grossly negligent (Gross negligence is a heightened degree of negligence representing an extreme departure from the ordinary standard of care. Falling between intent to do wrongful harm and ordinary negligence, gross negligence is defined as willful, wanton, and reckless conduct affecting the life or property or another.) It would be interesting to see the summing up and direction of the Judge to the Jury |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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ChrisB
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« Reply #153 on: June 20, 2023, 18:49:23 » |
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I would be interested if the bereaved sued for compensation & brought in both Driver & TfL» /Tram company on that statement.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #154 on: June 20, 2023, 21:03:25 » |
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I would be interested if the bereaved sued for compensation & brought in both Driver & TfL» /Tram company on that statement.
That's a very good point. |
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Electric train
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« Reply #155 on: June 20, 2023, 21:53:52 » |
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I would be interested if the bereaved sued for compensation & brought in both Driver & TfL» /Tram company on that statement.
What's the point in suing the driver, he is unlikely to have any wealth or assets to speak of so it would be vindictive also he has been proven innocent in a Criminal Court so in a civil court the prosecution would have to show the Criminal Court was wrong. The wealth is with TfL (aka the Tax Payer) if there is, which is likely, compensation will more than probably be settled out of Court, once the Criminal case has finished, there is nothing further to prove, the only things are the amount of money and an apology from TfL. To take the compensation to Court will incur costs and there is no guarantee the plaintives (victims) would get all of their cost covered above the amount of compensation. The tram driver is now by virtue of the verdict a victim and is entitled to compensation from TfL for putting his health and safety at risk whilst at work. |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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Phantom
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« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2023, 11:51:19 » |
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I would be interested if the bereaved sued for compensation & brought in both Driver & TfL» /Tram company on that statement.
What's the point in suing the driver, he is unlikely to have any wealth or assets to speak of so it would be vindictive also he has been proven innocent in a Criminal Court so in a civil court the prosecution would have to show the Criminal Court was wrong. The wealth is with TfL (aka the Tax Payer) if there is, which is likely, compensation will more than probably be settled out of Court, once the Criminal case has finished, there is nothing further to prove, the only things are the amount of money and an apology from TfL. To take the compensation to Court will incur costs and there is no guarantee the plaintives (victims) would get all of their cost covered above the amount of compensation. The tram driver is now by virtue of the verdict a victim and is entitled to compensation from TfL for putting his health and safety at risk whilst at work. Personally speaking it may help with closure as I am sure there will be a lot of bitterness with this outcome The driver has to be accountable |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #157 on: June 21, 2023, 13:20:49 » |
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I would be interested if the bereaved sued for compensation & brought in both Driver & TfL» /Tram company on that statement. What's the point in suing the driver, he is unlikely to have any wealth or assets to speak of so it would be vindictive also he has been proven innocent in a Criminal Court so in a civil court the prosecution would have to show the Criminal Court was wrong. Is this correct? I ask because the test of culpability is less in a civil case, isn't it? And the driver was negligent, he admitted same. |
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eightonedee
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« Reply #158 on: June 21, 2023, 17:44:10 » |
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Is this correct? I ask because the test of culpability is less in a civil case, isn't it? And the driver was negligent, he admitted same. Yes - it's a balance of probabilities test for civil liability, beyond reasonable doubt test for criminal liability |
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #159 on: June 21, 2023, 22:45:30 » |
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We shall see who my 'Learned Friends' advise the victims to sue, but I suspect, if they do at all, it will be higher in the food chain than the driver.
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Phantom
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« Reply #160 on: June 22, 2023, 10:45:18 » |
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We shall see who my 'Learned Friends' advise the victims to sue, but I suspect, if they do at all, it will be higher in the food chain than the driver.
He has lots of "get outs" - Lack of training - over worked etc etc |
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Witham Bobby
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« Reply #161 on: June 22, 2023, 12:42:30 » |
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The principle of vicarious liability means that employers are responsible for the negligence of their employees when the negligence occurs at work
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TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 6438
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #162 on: June 22, 2023, 20:17:25 » |
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We shall see who my 'Learned Friends' advise the victims to sue, but I suspect, if they do at all, it will be higher in the food chain than the driver.
Correct - the driver may not even have a job now, and is not worth pursuing. I would imagine an offer has already been made to the parties with justifiable claims by lawyers acting for the tram company or their insurers. Some may have been settled already, or received interim payments - I would hope so after almost 7 years. |
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Now, please!
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