Sit-in protest at Charing Cross railway station

[whole diary]

[Marlburian]

Pro-Palestinian protesters arrested as sit-in brings station to standstill

[Bob_Blakey]

I thought that railway stations were legally private property and the 'owner' could thus deny access as they saw fit.

I am more than happy to be corrected on this but if that is the case the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police), when asked to* , should be removing, forcibly if necessary, these protestors especially if they are obstructing normal passenger flow.

*Would this actually be required or is this covered by existing railway byelaws?

 

[TaplowGreen]

I thought that railway stations were legally private property and the 'owner' could thus deny access as they saw fit.

I am more than happy to be corrected on this but if that is the case the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police), when asked to* , should be removing, forcibly if necessary, these protestors especially if they are obstructing normal passenger flow.

*Would this actually be required or is this covered by existing railway byelaws?

 

I wish they would remove them (forcibly if necessary) - I wonder how long Jewish people in London (and elsewhere) are expected to tolerate this abuse, incitement, hide their identity, change their routines and be made to be feel uncomfortable by these weekly displays of hatred.

I cannot imagine any other group who would be expected to put up with it.

[Mark A]

This thread more than touches on a topic that's tending to overfill every discussion space available with polarising views that can be divisive even if not intentional and the outcome is unlikely to be positive.

This may be one for which the coffee shop isn't the best forum.

Hopefully the coffeeshop is and can continue to be an online space where everyone can continue to feel safe and welcome  - despite these being times when the national press and indeed the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s current government are leaning further into divide-and-rule tactics.

Mark

[TaplowGreen]

This thread more than touches on a topic that's tending to overfill every discussion space available with polarising views that can be divisive even if not intentional and the outcome is unlikely to be positive.

This may be one for which the coffee shop isn't the best forum.

Hopefully the coffeeshop is and can continue to be an online space where everyone can continue to feel safe and welcome  - despite these being times when the national press and indeed the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s current government are leaning further into divide-and-rule tactics.

Mark

Fair enough.

Perhaps we can simply agree as a railway forum that everyone, irrespective of race, ethnicity or political affiliation should be free to use railway stations for their intended purpose without fear of intimidation or abuse.

[broadgage]

I agree that the police should remove the protestos, and if need be arrest tham.
I support the right to peaceful protest, but do not consider that preventing customers from using the station should be counted as peaceful.
SMALL numbers of protestors should be allowed to chant slogans, or wave banners provided that normal access to, and use of the station is not prevented.
Likewise blocking public rights of way, or illegally occupying public or private property.

[Mark A]

I thought that railway stations were legally private property and the 'owner' could thus deny access as they saw fit.

I am more than happy to be corrected on this but if that is the case the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police), when asked to* , should be removing, forcibly if necessary, these protestors especially if they are obstructing normal passenger flow.

*Would this actually be required or is this covered by existing railway byelaws?

 

Disclaimer: not a  lawyer.

This will be covered by 13 (2) of the railway bylaws.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79c14b40f0b66d161ade8c/railway-byelaws.pdf

13 (2) No person shall loiter on the railway if asked to leave by an authorised person.

Also, the police themselves can apply to use powers granted by e.g. the 1986 public order act with respect to demonstrations at railway stations especially should they scale to something that's in conflict with the functioning of the station itself.


https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/england/police-obtain-new-powers-ahead-of-planned-demonstration-at-kings-cross-railway-station-this-afternoon/

Mark

[TonyK]

The powers held by the police, be it BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) or another constabulary, are sufficient to deal with people misusing a private space open to the public. That said, they work fine in a railway station with a dozen people, but are a lot harder to put into practice with a thousand. Any response to a sit-in or such protest will always have to be looked at with the principle of not making matters worse before weighing in. The days when an announcement by an official wearing an appropriate hat would be enough to get everybody to go home are long behind us. That doesn't mean we should let anyone who fancies disrupting the travel plans of normal people to just carry on with it, but I would rather be inconvenienced by a sit-in than by a full scale punch up between the riot squad and hundreds of angry people.

[TaplowGreen]

The powers held by the police, be it BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) or another constabulary, are sufficient to deal with people misusing a private space open to the public. That said, they work fine in a railway station with a dozen people, but are a lot harder to put into practice with a thousand. Any response to a sit-in or such protest will always have to be looked at with the principle of not making matters worse before weighing in. The days when an announcement by an official wearing an appropriate hat would be enough to get everybody to go home are long behind us. That doesn't mean we should let anyone who fancies disrupting the travel plans of normal people to just carry on with it, but I would rather be inconvenienced by a sit-in than by a full scale punch up between the riot squad and hundreds of angry people.

It's important to understand that this isn't about a little minor inconvenience, meaning it takes you a little longer to reach your platform or get a coffee, it's about the intimidation of an entire group of people who don't feel safe to use the station or feel the need to disguise their identity or change their behaviour because of their race due to the behaviour of the mob.

As I suggested above, everyone should be able to feel free to use stations or any other facility without fear of intimidation or abuse.

[Mark A]

The image below - text from someone who realised he was radicalised by his life experiences and walked himself back.

It's good at times like these for all of us to self-reflect and think

'Which of these do we recognise in ourselves? In the language we use, do we see any of this?'

'Do we see calls for any of these in our media and from our politicians?'

Mark

[Bob_Blakey]

Just to be clear - because I made no direct reference to a particular group of individuals in my original post - I meant that as a matter of principle the police should remove, by arresting them if polite requests are ineffective, anybody who is engaging in any form of protest that stops or delays intending rail passengers from going about their lawful business.

And I would of course extend this principle to any other similar situation e.g. Obstruction of the highway by Just Stop Oil activists.

[broadgage]

Just to be clear - because I made no direct reference to a particular group of individuals in my original post - I meant that as a matter of principle the police should remove, by arresting them if polite requests are ineffective, anybody who is engaging in any form of protest that stops or delays intending rail passengers from going about their lawful business.

And I would of course extend this principle to any other similar situation e.g. Obstruction of the highway by Just Stop Oil activists.

I agree, and while I have some sympathy with the aims of XR^▸ (Crossrail) and with just stop oil, I do not feel that they should be allowed to block roads or public transport facilities.

[TaplowGreen]

Liverpool Lime Street's turn last night.....amongst the antisemitic chanting and Palestinian flags being waved you will also notice an RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) flag.....scarcely credible.

[broadgage]

Liverpool Lime Street's turn last night.....amongst the antisemitic chanting and Palestinian flags being waved you will also notice an RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) flag.....scarcely credible.

Not surprising in my view. The more left wing trades unions tend to support Palestine, not I suspect after any careful consideration of the issues, but simply on the basis that Palestine is perceived as anti western/anti capitalist and must therefore be a good thing. America and western Europe tend to support Israel, which is another reason for left wing unions to support the other side.
Likewise trade union support for russia is common from the days when russia was a workers paradise, AKA^▸ (also known as) a communist dictatership. Russia is not really communist any more, but that will take a long time to penetrate the bruvvers.

[TaplowGreen]

Good to see the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) getting on the front foot.

We'll see what happens.