Project Churchward - Future regional fleet for the west

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

A few of you may know GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) been looking for ways to replace the entire dmu fleet as well.as possibly emus in the Thames valley.


GWRS MD has been quite vocal about particularly about getting Bristol TM^‡(resolve) wired to GWR could use a emu fitted with batteries on the Cardiff to Portsmouth hbr service.

Other UK^▸ (United Kingdom) TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) especially northern and chiltern are struggling to get replacement parts for the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) dmus.

The DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) have now put a tenders out for replacement units including for GWR.

Looks like they are looking at units with 24m carriages  for  GWR hopefully 5 carriage units for the Portsmouth hbr service.

I doubt very much it would be Hitachi that would get the contract. My money is probably on Alstom or STadler

[eightonedee]

Presumably "Churchward" after the noted Great Western CME of the opening years of the last century?

He, as one of the great innovative railway engineers would be turning in his grave at the current state of the railway vehicle construction industry in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

[IndustryInsider]

Finally some detailed proposals, even if over 5 years away.  Here’s hoping for some or all to be provided by Stadler, and for cascades from other operators to help out in the meantime.

He, as one of the great innovative railway engineers would be turning in his grave at the current state of the railway vehicle construction industry in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

It’s a lot better than it was ten years ago when there was just Derby.

[JayMac]

Class 75x/23x FLIRTs, Now!

Although why specify 24m per carriage? Surely the main focuses should be the traction package and seating capacity. Stadler FLIRTs of varying lengths and traction types would be, in my opinion, the perfect fleet to order. FLIRTs are already a very flexible, modular design. A 'next gen' update following on from the sucessful Greater Anglia and Transport for Wales fleets would be perfect for the diverse needs of the greater western network. As much commonality as possible would be best for future proofing should there be expansion of electrification. Losing diesel 'power packs' is much better than having to order another new fleet down the *ahem* line.




Edit note: Thread title updated to 'Project Churchward - Future regional fleet for the west' to better describe the topic.

[Noggin]

A few of you may know GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) been looking for ways to replace the entire dmu fleet as well.as possibly emus in the Thames valley.

News to me, thanks for the tip.

Yes, the unrefurbished Turbos are looking very tired these days and the Welsh FLIRTS look very nice.

Any idea on whether that might include closing St Philip's Marsh and building a new depot somewhere else? Seems very quiet these days.

My presumption was/is that an unvoiced objective of the Temple Meads roof project is to have a solid structure to which electrification hardware can be fixed and that once they were reasonably far along, they'd pass the 3D models to electrification designers and propose wiring to Parkway as 'the thin end of the wedge'.

 

[TonyK]

Some big decisions needed on electrification here. Surely, we can't have yet another stop-gap fleet of anything still needing diesel?

[anthony215]

I've heard talk of wires to Bristol TM^‡(resolve) via both Filton and Bath along with wires to Swansea.
A tri-mode 5 carriage unit be ideal for Cardiff to Portsmouth hbr and even Cardiff to penzance.  Heard other electric islands were being looked at

I heard they were trying to get wires from Swindon to Severn tunnel junction and Westerleigh jct too.

[grahame]

"Project Chuchward" has been vaguely around for a while; good to see some flesh being put on the bones.  I seem to recall plans being to order a new fleet of 17x units  ( a dozen at 4 cars each) to run Portsmouth / Cardiff, but then that got canned with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) electrification costing rather a lot and releasing the turbos.

I have seen some very sensible Network Rail long term aspirations for further electrification and use of battery / alternative fuels on remaining lines to the exclusion of diesel traction in due course.   What is lacking in my mind is the work being done on the ground to have this actually happen - perhaps pump priming is going on behind the scenes or unnoticed, but I'm darned if I have seen it!

It would make sense for the "next stage" to complete electrification from Chippenham via Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway and Patchway (overhead) , and from Basingstoke, Southampton and Eastleigh to Salisbury (perhaps 3rd rail) to allow Cardiff / Portsmouth service to make use of batteries from Bathampton to Salisbury (or Wilton?).  Heavy freight would/will provide an impetus to have electrification into the Westbury area too ...

[broadgage]

Some big decisions needed on electrification here. Surely, we can't have yet another stop-gap fleet of anything still needing diesel?

I support electrification, but remain of the view that all new electric trains should have a battery or a diesel engine to run basic on board services or proceed at much reduced performance when the wires come down.
Having incurred the cost and weight penalty, then this battery or engine could be used to a very limited extent in passenger service.
Electrification should be cheaper and simpler with the odd short gap in problematic locations such as inadequate clearances under bridges.
In most cases trains could coast through such gaps, but a secondary power source seems prudent. Also valuable for diversions, to Waterloo for example, or excursions to heritage railways.

[Bob_Blakey]

.....Heard other electric islands were being looked at.....

How's about this for a completely bonkers idea? Electrification of the (entirely self-contained) Devon Metro route between Exmouth & Paignton on which the principal 150/2 rolling stock is approaching it's fortieth birthday.

[eightonedee]

It would make sense for the "next stage" to complete electrification from Chippenham via Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway and Patchway (overhead) , and from Basingstoke, Southampton and Eastleigh to Salisbury (perhaps 3rd rail) to allow Cardiff / Portsmouth service to make use of batteries from Bathampton to Salisbury (or Wilton?).  Heavy freight would/will provide an impetus to have electrification into the Westbury area too ...

....and to Oxford (better still Banbury as well so that all Thames Valley main line and "Oxford Canal Line" services can be run by those Electrostars that always seem to be hanging around the Reading Depot).

[Electric train]

The next major National timetable change is 2029 to 2031, the railways next 5 year Control Period CP8 (CP7 is 2024-2029).  The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) via the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), the TOCs have been in discussion with Network Rail.  The TOCs have had to produce a report to the DfT what is required rolling stock renewals, example are the Networkers (465/6 165/6 etc)

Change of rolling stock leads to a change in infrastructure -
Train care facilities,
Stations
Traction power (substations, Grid supplies OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") / third rail), 
Signalling (roll out of ETCS^▸ (European Train Control System) ie in cab signalling) 
Track layouts

Some of this will rollover into CP9