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stuving
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« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2023, 22:36:58 » |
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This will be embarrassing for NRHS Maintainenance Ltd, they should know how to shut the fire main off.
Exactly what I was thinking. The tunnel's only 3 km long, so even if someone has to go and look inside it should not take much over an hour - and you'd think there was CCTV▸ in any case. All the pipes are clearly marked, and details of how to shut them off are readily available at the control centre. Then the main drainage pumps take over and the whole incident is over in no more than three hours, less if incident planning and rehearsal is really good. So ... |
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infoman
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2023, 04:21:25 » |
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Two things
Just to clarify its fresh water pipe that has burst and not the River Thames springing a leak?
A recent event at a hotel which was using their stored supply of water,
as the mains water supply had suffered a break in supply.
Following day a very large water tanker was on site to supply the hotel with fresh water.
I thought that was quick to get a water tanker on site that quickly.
Turned out the water company had been doing some works near the hotel and turned the mains supply off,
but had forgot to turn the supply back on.
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Mark A
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2023, 10:18:10 » |
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This will be embarrassing for NRHS Maintainenance Ltd, they should know how to shut the fire main off.
Exactly what I was thinking. The tunnel's only 3 km long, so even if someone has to go and look inside it should not take much over an hour - and you'd think there was CCTV▸ in any case. All the pipes are clearly marked, and details of how to shut them off are readily available at the control centre. Then the main drainage pumps take over and the whole incident is over in no more than three hours, less if incident planning and rehearsal is really good. So ... ... given that Eurostar won't be able to move the 30,000 delayed passengers from yesterday by switching their bookings to today, should anyone on this forum be caught up in similar disruption in the future, would the best course of action be to be familiar in advance with the likes of a more minor crossing such as the Newhaven-Dieppe ferry and associated train travel and possible accommodation for early departures so you can spring into action in advance of the majority of the other 29999 eurostar travellers? Then you can resign yourself that while you won't be in e.g. Paris in three hours, you'll be there within the day... Not much use tomorrow on the Newhaven to Dieppe route as they don't sail on new year's day. I'd have suggested Dover but at one point wasn't it vehicle accompanied traffic only and is it now the case that the carriers have changed their minds and are now accepting foot passengers once more? Mark |
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GBM
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2023, 10:36:43 » |
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..............................
I'd have suggested Dover but at one point wasn't it vehicle accompanied traffic only and is it now the case that the carriers have changed their minds and are now accepting foot passengers once more?
Mark
From https://www.poferries.com/en/routes/dover-to-calais/travel-information/travelling-as-a-foot-passengerTravelling as a foot passenger We are very pleased to be welcoming foot passengers back on board our popular Dover to Calais route. With France being just a 90 minute sailing away and Calais having great bus and rail connections, travelling as a foot passenger doesn’t mean you have to miss out on exploring! We have put together some useful updated information below, please ensure you are fully up to date with the new requirements for travelling as a foot passenger including; current testing rules, foot passenger check in times and restrictions, as these are likely to be different to the last time you travelled with us. |
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Personal opinion only. Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)  |
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grahame
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2023, 10:38:39 » |
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Quite out of context for today, I have been recommending Cherbourg to Portsmouth and Hook of Holland to Harwich on the "Interrailing for the Older Crowd" Facebook Group to members on an unfixed schedule who need to get back across the channel at short notice. The approach I took last year (and probably will next) was to fly to wherever there were last minute cheap flights available at the far end of Europe and then trickle back, taking Eurostar is available at a sensible price, or a ferry if not ...
and (stop press) I see that foot passengers are "welcome" (but it may just be politically tolerated) from Calais to Dover.
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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Mark A
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2023, 11:36:52 » |
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Ah, thanks for the link. Sounds as though, from Dover, P&O's had their arm twisted and put together a minimal capacity for foot passengers and, for good measure, on only a minority of ferry crossings.
Mark
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JayMac
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2023, 21:18:34 » |
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Think of the cost for a once in  ? use? Would have to be added to ticket prices. Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. Are they added to future ticket prices? It'd be an interesting comparison to see the costs of all the cancellations versus the cost of a limited one day opening of Ashford International to get people moving. Not forgetting the compensation Eurostar will receive from the infrastructure owner, HICL. Border staff. Unions. Home Office. Costs. Excuses, excuses, excuses. A can't do rather than can do attitude. A pervasive attitude that blights so many service providers. |
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
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grahame
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2024, 03:55:13 » |
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Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. ...
What are the liabilities on Eurostar cancelled service? Does delay/repay apply, for example, and do they need to accommodate people who turn up with a reservation to find all trains cancelled and no alternative? |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2024, 06:23:28 » |
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Can I ask a couple of technical questions about the pipe?
Various reports are describing it as a fire main. Does it have to be available for emergency use if the line is being used (such that, if it fails, then the line can't be used)?
What happened in the other tunnel? AIUI▸ most high-speed lines are capable of single-line working - why wasn't this possible here?
Is there a similar fire main in the Channel Tunnel?
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Electric train
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« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2024, 08:02:29 » |
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Can I ask a couple of technical questions about the pipe? Various reports are describing it as a fire main. Does it have to be available for emergency use if the line is being used (such that, if it fails, then the line can't be used)? The EUs» ' TSI's (Technical Specifications for Interoperability) now in the UK▸ NTR (National Technical Rules) require fire mains in tunnels, over I believe 1km, for fire fighters to use. A fire main not being available does not prevent the operation of all trains in that tunnel, the local fire fighting authority needs to be informed and what the plan and time scale is the fire main to be returned to service What happened in the other tunnel? AIUI▸ most high-speed lines are capable of single-line working - why wasn't this possible here?
It depends where the water was entering the tunnels, there are cross passages. Also with teams needing to access the track HS1▸ rules prevent trains running with staff on the track. |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2024, 10:47:01 » |
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Thanks for both of those. The range and quality of technical information that's available on this site never ceases to amaze me!  |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2024, 11:27:29 » |
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Think of the cost for a once in ? use? Would have to be added to ticket prices. Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. Are they added to future ticket prices? No - because these costs don't materialise. Displaced customers will be/have been carried in unsold seats on future rains or refunded their purchase price. There are no other costs as E* are not liable for these in law. It'd be an interesting comparison to see the costs of all the cancellations versus the cost of a limited one day opening of Ashford International to get people moving. Not forgetting the compensation Eurostar will receive from the infrastructure owner, HICL. Errr - huge. as I said above, very limited on-costs for E* versus the cost of opening Ashford for a da. Ashford is incapable f being opened within a week at least - all the IT infrastructure has been removed I understand, so there are no gate software, border force infrastructure, etc, etc - all removed. To have it put back such that it could be immediately activated would be in the £millions, and a permanent on-cost, not just a one-off iin keeping it maintained. It woulde put E* out of the UK▸ business. |
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Electric train
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« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2024, 14:58:20 » |
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Think of the cost for a once in ? use? Would have to be added to ticket prices. Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. Are they added to future ticket prices? No - because these costs don't materialise. Displaced customers will be/have been carried in unsold seats on future rains or refunded their purchase price. There are no other costs as E* are not liable for these in law. It'd be an interesting comparison to see the costs of all the cancellations versus the cost of a limited one day opening of Ashford International to get people moving. Not forgetting the compensation Eurostar will receive from the infrastructure owner, HICL. Errr - huge. as I said above, very limited on-costs for E* versus the cost of opening Ashford for a da. Ashford is incapable f being opened within a week at least - all the IT infrastructure has been removed I understand, so there are no gate software, border force infrastructure, etc, etc - all removed. To have it put back such that it could be immediately activated would be in the £millions, and a permanent on-cost, not just a one-off iin keeping it maintained. It woulde put E* out of the UK▸ business. The payment of the cost of compensation to the passenger will be down to a commercial / contractual discusion between the owners HS1▸ Ltd (a consortium comprising of funds advised and managed by InfraRed Capital Partners Limited and Equitix Investment Management Limited). the maintainer (NRHS1 Ltd) and any sub contractors responsible for maintaining the asset that failed. Simple really  |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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ChrisB
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« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2024, 15:03:55 » |
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Yep - so E* will itself be compensated for being unable to run trains - eventually - but the passengers affected get nothing except their fare back.
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