Difficult to argue with e-bike/scooter rules?

[whole diary]

[CyclingSid]

This happening in a train or bus doesn't really bear thinking about https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-68744317

E-bike and e-scooter fires are the fastest-growing fire risk in London: statistics indicate there have been at least 40 this year.

[simonw]

Is it?

The failure of the government to legislate the type of personal e-vehicles

• e-Scooters - low speed, no helmet needed (15kmH
• e-Scooters - higher speed, helmet needed ( 25kmH)
• e-bikes - Cycle assist, helmet needed (25kmH)
• e-bikes - Cycle assist, helmet needed (35kmH)
• e-Bikes - Throttle control, helmet needed (35kmH)
• etc

and the quality of batteries for Scooters/Bikes, with certified Battery Management Systems is probably a big cause of this.

The number of times I see high speed eScooters in Bristol is alarming, and the lack of wearing helmets!

[IndustryInsider]

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo need coming down on hard as their riders routinely use illegally modified e-bikes without helmets and lights at far too high speeds.

[Electric train]

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo need coming down on hard as their riders routinely use illegally modified e-bikes without helmets and lights at far too high speeds.

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo will just say not our problem, they "employ" a person to deliver stuff, the means by which that that person achieves the delivery is that persons

[johnneyw]

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo will just say not our problem, they "employ" a person to deliver stuff, the means by which that that person achieves the delivery is that persons

It makes me wonder what stance the likes of Deliveroo and Just Eat have to their logos being emblazoned on illegally modified delivery e-bikes.  They give the impression of being pretty indifferent about it.

[IndustryInsider]

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo need coming down on hard as their riders routinely use illegally modified e-bikes without helmets and lights at far too high speeds.

The likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo will just say not our problem, they "employ" a person to deliver stuff, the means by which that that person achieves the delivery is that persons

That’s quite right, which is why I said they need coming down on hard - with new employment laws if necessary.  That sort of thing is easy now we’ve left the EU^» (European Union - about) isn’t it?!    I don’t blame the riders themselves on bit.

[ChrisB]

I do - well, over the illegal ones.

The riders/owners are fully aware that they don't meet regulations yet they take the risk. No one else should be affected by a failure.

[broadgage]

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), the rules need simplifying and then enforcing. I am in principle in favour of lightweight and relatively cheap electrically powered or electrically assisted vehicles. The carbon emissions are minimal as is the wear on roads and the road space taken up.
 The foolhardy  way in which many such machines are operated is a serious cause for concern, as are the number of dangerously modified vehicles.

I would suggest the following.

Type 1, pedal powered with battery assistance, and a maximum speed under battery power of 15 MPH. Treat as pedal cycles with no requirement for a helmet, formal training, or insurance. Maximum weight 35 kilos. No age limit.

Type 2, battery powered, with or without pedal assistance, maximum speed 30 MPH. Treat as petrol mopeds, moped licence needed. Helmet required and also insurance. Maximum weight 100 kilos. Rider must be at least 14.

Type 3, no limit on speed or weight. Treat as any other motorcycle full motorcycle licence and insurance required and a helmet.

[simonw]

I agree with most of this. Currently the law does not reflect the technology/transport opportunities eScooters/eBikes provide. The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) government should license more types of these, and demand insurance and MOTs (for eScooters/eBikes).

On a daily basis I see dangerously fast eScooters/eBikes (Bristol !!!) ridden by people without helmets and protective clothes.

[ChrisB]

Said batteries need regulating too....

[broadgage]

Said batteries need regulating too....

In theory, I agree, but probably impossible in practice.
My proposed simplified regulations would be easy for the police or other authority to enforce. But how is a police officer to determine the difference between a safe battery and a dangerous one ? or between a correctly charged battery and a dangerously overcharged one ?

[ChrisB]

They have to be banned unless regulation-use batteries are used, simple.
Registration maybe required as someone will die otherwise from use of unregulated battery explosion

[broadgage]

They have to be banned unless regulation-use batteries are used, simple.
Registration maybe required as someone will die otherwise from use of unregulated battery explosion

These batteries are invariably imported from places of doubtful reputation. The makers will apply whatever approval marks or certificates that are required for the intended market. including CE marking, UL listed, or any other standard.

[IndustryInsider]

They have to be banned unless regulation-use batteries are used, simple.
Registration maybe required as someone will die otherwise from use of unregulated battery explosion

These batteries are invariably imported from places of doubtful reputation. The makers will apply whatever approval marks or certificates that are required for the intended market. including CE marking, UL listed, or any other standard.

Better regulation and clearer laws will no doubt help - the current free-for-all cannot continue. 

If you pass laws that make JustEat and the like directly responsible for ensuring their riders use proper equipment (perhaps by supplying it, or offering incentive schemes through approved retailers) and don't break the law then that will help enormously IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).  Forcing them to provide proper contracts of employment rather than treating them as contractors and letting them get on with sourcing their own bikes and (lack of) equipment will also help.  Being paid per delivery only encourages them to buy unsuitable equipment and ride it irresponsibly.

It might end up making their businesses unviable which is tough.

[CyclingSid]

I must admit that my initial concern was that it appeared that the bike was about three steps from being able to board a train. Had it done so the result would not have been so photogenic.