New plans for the Gloucester railway triangle

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Or First Group (buses).

[G.Uard]

In my opinion, the constant calls for a new Gloucester station seem more of a knee jerk reaction than a planned campaign.  Virgin's and subsequently AXC^» (Arriva Cross Country - about)'s decision not to serve the city have led to a severe denting of civic pride; but as discussed above, there is no guarantee that XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services would call, in viable numbers, at a new station.

We have already examined the operational problems a new station would engender, but that is only a portion of the picture.  Gloucester has little in the way of prime employment in its centre.  Much of the manufacturing and service sectors are concentrated either in the Barnwood area, admittedly ideal for the new station; or some distance south of the city in Quedgely. (Miles from the current station and even further from the proposed Triangle site).  With the so called regeneration plan poised to split the city even further, I maintain that the last thing Gloucester needs is a station on its periphery.

As such, development of a major bus/rail interchange at the current station site could be a more effective option.  The current bus station is life expired and Gloucester station in need of a major makeover.

An improvement to GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains)-BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) services is long overdue, but given the importance of both Yate and Filton AW as revenue sources, non stop services between GCR and BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) are probably not viable.  Another pair of 158 units and tighter timings would be well received on this line though.

However, there is always the possibility that any improvements may also work against Gloucester by funnelling even more potential customers/employees to nearby competitor towns and cities.

[willc]

Agree. And if the third platform were built on the trackbed of the Broadway line, then what would be to stop it being extended into the centre as a second stage.

The taxi drivers? 

Or First Group (buses).

Define "the centre". Cheltenham St James station's site (still a brisk five-minute walk from the centre and lousy road access) has disappeared under offices and Waitrose and the nearest the Honeybourne line gets to the town centre is on a bridge and brick arches over the northern extremity of the High Street - not exactly a promising station site. Better a bay platform at the end of the southbound platform, with replacement car parking provided by demolishing the redundant Royal Mail shed.

And Stagecoach would be most surprised to learn that First operate Cheltenham's buses.

As for Gloucester, there is no one size fits all answer. Other than being on the through lines, Barnwood has absolutely nothing going for it as a station site, as it's out on a limb, the same problem the Parkway station on the edge of the city poses (the only people who liked that idea were the county council and Virgin, who would then have abandoned Cheltenham). One of Virgin's issues was always the number of people just doing the hop between Cheltenham and Gloucester on their stupidly short and overcrowded trains, which probably outweighed the through traffic they picked up.

A regular, reliable FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service between Gloucester and Bristol might take some of the heat out of the argument. And to be fair to FGW and Arriva Wales, when it's all working well, a lot of the connections to/from Gloucester at Cheltenham are short and slick, with little hanging around.

A major problem is the through running of FGW's Weymouth/Brighton services with Worcester/Malverns, which is just a recipe for delays upon delays and often breaks those connections.

[Graz]

Agree. And if the third platform were built on the trackbed of the Broadway line, then what would be to stop it being extended into the centre as a second stage.

The taxi drivers? 

Or First Group (buses).

Define "the centre". Cheltenham St James station's site (still a brisk five-minute walk from the centre and lousy road access) has disappeared under offices and Waitrose and the nearest the Honeybourne line gets to the town centre is on a bridge and brick arches over the northern extremity of the High Street - not exactly a promising station site. Better a bay platform at the end of the southbound platform, with replacement car parking provided by demolishing the redundant Royal Mail shed.

And Stagecoach would be most surprised to learn that First operate Cheltenham's buses.

As for Gloucester, there is no one size fits all answer. Other than being on the through lines, Barnwood has absolutely nothing going for it as a station site, as it's out on a limb, the same problem the Parkway station on the edge of the city poses (the only people who liked that idea were the county council and Virgin, who would then have abandoned Cheltenham). One of Virgin's issues was always the number of people just doing the hop between Cheltenham and Gloucester on their stupidly short and overcrowded trains, which probably outweighed the through traffic they picked up.

A regular, reliable FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service between Gloucester and Bristol might take some of the heat out of the argument. And to be fair to FGW and Arriva Wales, when it's all working well, a lot of the connections to/from Gloucester at Cheltenham are short and slick, with little hanging around.

A major problem is the through running of FGW's Weymouth/Brighton services with Worcester/Malverns, which is just a recipe for delays upon delays and often breaks those connections.

Couldn't have put it better myself- 100% agreed with all your points.

[Btline]

My mistake, but in my defence, I had about a  33% chance in getting it right!

PS: The LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) service from Gloucester to Worcester will be worked by a 153 (from the Stourbridge line, or Walsall line) not a 170 as indicated on previous threads (I knew that LM would not have enough 170s!).

[John R]

My mistake, but in my defence, I had about a  33% chance in getting it right!

PS: The LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) service from Gloucester to Worcester will be worked by a 153 (from the Stourbridge line, or Walsall line) not a 170 as indicated on previous threads (I knew that LM would not have enough 170s!).

Is that the Walsall-Wolverhampton line that is closing in December after the DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) refused to continue support for it?

[Btline]

It may be that carriage.

The campaign to keep the line open was stopped suddenly when LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) said that the carriage "was needed elsewhere" and had been "allocated already."

I expect that the the carriage being needed was the main reason for the closure - passenger numbers had been going up greatly recently, so I would be surprised if the gov withdrew the funding.

Stupid! One (potentially profitable) line has to close to enable a carriage to be released!

[JayMac]

From the Gloucester Citizen:

New masterplan approved for Gloucester's Railway Triangle

A new masterplan for the transformation of Gloucester's Railway Triangle has been approved.

After Gloucester Rugby decided to remain at Kingsholm four years ago - instead of relocating to a new community stadium at the Railway Triangle - the new masterplan was finally approved by the Gloucester Heritage Urban Regeneration Company (GHURC) Board last Friday.

It sets out a vision for the 30-acre site, which has been derelict for years and is currently owned by Network Rail, to be a sustainable, residential-led mixed use development with green spaces and community orchards connecting the site right through to the City centre.

The plan includes 360 new homes, of which  a quarter will be apartments, around 700 square metres of community retail, a health innovations centre, allotment spaces and a landmark pedestrian bridge across the railway line.  Network Rail will relocate to the southern part of the Railway Triangle, on the other side of Metz Way.

A series of new connections into the city will be constructed from an area that has never had public access before.   These will include a new junction for pedestrians, cyclists and motor traffic off Metz Way, new pedestrian and cycle access crossing the railway onto Derby/Horton Road and another link onto Armscroft Park via an upgraded Blinkhorns Bridge Tunnel.

Direct pedestrian access to the City Centre from Great Western Road will be via the station subway, which is shortly to undergo a ^100,000 improvement scheme to improve lighting and security via CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision).

Chris Oldershaw, Chief Executive of the GHURC, said: ^This has always been a challenging site but we now have a scheme which makes sense for the city and for which there is already expressions of interest from the private sector.^

[JayMac]

Also from the Gloucester Citizen (17/08/2010):

Railway triangle housing plans slammed

Campaigners have slammed plans for housing on Gloucester's railway triangle, saying it will cripple any future for a new train station. Concerned residents and railway enthusiasts say passing up the chance to look at developing a new station on the land would be a missed opportunity. Plans for the transformation of the derelict railway triangle were revealed earlier this month.

The proposals were drawn up by the Gloucester Heritage Urban Regeneration Company (GHURC) and include 360 new homes, around 700 square metres of community retail, a health innovations centre, allotment space and a landmark pedestrian bridge.

Former Mayor of Barton Horton Cameron, an ex rail guard, said the infrastructure for a new station was already in place.

He said: "All that would be needed is three crossover loop lines from the present main lines into the new station. We are appealing to the GHURC team to have a further look at their plans, to see the benefits and attraction a railway station at the triangle has to offer and to attract strangers and rail travellers to visit the city. They should try to end the discrimination certain train operators are using against Gloucester at present."

Former mayor and Labour party campaigner Terry Haines said: "Everybody is behind the idea of developing the railway triangle, I have been for most of my life. It's important that the development is used for the regeneration of the city, and the problems with the railway station need to be addressed."

He said the space should be used to build better facilities for trains so Gloucester could be on more main-line routes.

Chris Oldershaw, chief executive of the GHURC, said he did not believe a new railway station would be possible.

He said: "Extensive discussions between the GHURC, landowner Network Rail and the train operators were held last year to scope the building of a new railway station on the railway triangle. The train operators did not support this course of action and Network Rail finally ruled this out as unviable. Network Rail has said that the future of Gloucester central station is not in doubt and confirmed its intention to retain the station and invest in improvements over the next three years."

The latest plans were drawn up after Gloucester Rugby decided against moving to a new community stadium on the land, which sits behind the city's railway station.

The GHURC is trying to get backing from business leaders for the plans, which it has previously said could take up to seven years to complete.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Gloucester railway triangle development plans unveiled

Plans to redevelop an area of derelict land in Gloucester known as the railway triangle have been unveiled.

The proposals, which include a Morrisons food-only supermarket and light industry units, could create up to 1,000 jobs.

Owner Network Rail has agreed to sell the 15-acre site to developer LXB.

Gloucester's conservative MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Richard Graham said it was "the most promising proposal yet in the long history of proposals".

About 400 jobs would be created at the supermarket alone.

The site has been unused for more than 20 years.

Previous plans have included a snow dome, an ice rink, a new stadium for Gloucester Rugby and hundreds of new homes, but none of the schemes have got off the drawing board.

Chris Oldershaw, chief executive of the Gloucester Heritage Urban Regeneration Company, said: "The difference now is we have a very live proposal from Morrisons. I'm sure they'll be working to a very tight time scale and LXB are very keen to move forward on this project very quickly. It's a very interesting proposal. We do need to explore these issues with [the developers] in detail."

Consultation will now take place to see if the scheme can go ahead and a planning application could be submitted before the end of the year.

The development would be funded through the private sector.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From Thisisgloucestershire:

Railway Triangle's ^34m revamp gets green light

A ^34 million transformation is on its way to Gloucester's eyesore Railway Triangle.

The site, off Metz Way, has been derelict for 20 years but will now be home to a new Morrisons supermarket and petrol station after the plans were granted full permission.

A pub, restaurant, takeaways, car showroom and other business units will follow, but detailed plans for them are yet to be heard.

The new supermarket development is welcomed by many as a chance to improve the site, but for others, it kills off any hope of the city getting a new railway station on the site.

Gloucester City Council's planning committee called a special meeting on Thursday night, outside its normal schedule, to discuss the proposals.

Nick Alford, property manager of LXB Properties ^ the developer behind the plans, said: "We are very excited about this opportunity. It will assist in the revitalisation and regeneration of the wasteland that is the Metz Way triangle and develop a scheme of which we can all be proud."

He said 1,000 jobs will be created at the site and his vision is for a "vibrant business environment as opposed to an industrial trading estate".

Morrisons is set to be a food-only store, allaying fears that it could hit city centre retailers.

Councillor Mary Smith (Lab, Robinswood and Matson) said at the meeting: "The fact is it's going to cost millions and millions to put a railway station on that site ^ so much so that Network Rail have discounted the idea completely. I know it's not what people want to hear but they are saying categorically they are not interested in building a station there."

Coun Phil McLellan (Lib Dem, Barnwood) added: "Network Rail don't support a new station, the Office of Rail Regulation don't support it, the Department of Transport don't support it. I don't think we can whistle in the wind, hoping in a few years' time they will turn around and support it. Do I think this is a great application? No. I don't think it's wonderful. I want something impressive for the city. Morrisons won't bring that. But it will create jobs and will give a bit of competition to the other supermarkets."

The meeting heard from several Gloucester residents and campaigners wanting the 30-acre site to be used for a new station. Two petitions and 46 letters backing those calls had been sent to the council too.

Concerns about the impact on wildlife living there, including invertebrates and lizards, were also raised by Gloucestershire Wildlife Trust.

But councillors agreed to approve the plans unanimously, paving the way for work to begin as early as next spring.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Gloucestershire Citizen:

Calls for top end businesses on Gloucester Railway Triangle site

Hopes are high that top-end retailers will be enticed into Gloucester as diggers prepare to move in on wasteland.

Work on the Railway Triangle will begin imminently as the developers draw up plans to get big names on board.

​
WASTELAND: The triangle of land in Gloucester by the railway line.

A planning application has been made by developers LXB properties to position a sign off Metz Way to the north of the site in a bid to attract businesses to take up the retail units there.

The derelict site has been empty for 20 years but planning permission was granted in December 2011 for a new Morrisons supermarket and petrol station. A pub, restaurant, takeaways, car showroom, a new road junction and other business units are set to follow as part of a ^34million overhaul.

Nick Alford, of LXB, said: "After years of dereliction and under-use of this gateway site, we are encouraged by the interest received from potential occupiers for the planned business park and restaurant units. We are confident that the creation of a major new junction onto Metz Way and construction of the food store will help crystalise the expressions of interest into firm offers."

Around 1,000 jobs will be created on the 30-acre site.

Gloucester City Council leader Paul James hopes to see top businesses stake a claim for units on the site in an effort to raise the profile of the city. He said: "The new Morrisons is the least exciting part of the scheme, but it allows the other parts to flourish. I would like to see the other units taken by high-quality businesses with high-skilled jobs too."

It is hoped work on the site will begin in earnest next week. The long-term aim is to complete the building of Morrisons by July next year.

Morrisons will aim to open in the autumn of 2013.

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Railway triangle redevelopment work gets under way

Work has begun on the ^34m redevelopment of derelict land near Gloucester's railway station.

The railway triangle will be see a new business park, restaurant and pub, takeaways and a supermarket.

Gloucester City Council approved the proposals in 2011 after the area had been derelict for 20 years. Previous schemes such as a rugby stadium failed.

Gloucester Conservative MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Richard Graham said the development should "transform a gateway into Gloucester".

"People will look back and think 'that's significantly better than it was'," he said.

The first phase of work costing about ^8m will see a new Morrisons supermarket and access road built, which will provide the infrastructure for the rest of the park.

[JayMac]

Now, what about a Gloucester Parkway station on the mainline to go with this development?

[bobm]

It's timely reading this as I was only thinking on Monday as I passed through Westbury (rather than using the avoiding line) how much land is idle there between the various lines which converge at the station.  I am sure some of it could be put to use.

[laird]

I was surprised it was 20 years ago, I can recall seeing the Railfreight Coal liveried class 37 removing the wagons from the S&TE depot pictured and depositing them on the other side of the main road where they continued to decay. I'm not sure if any of them made it into preservation?

The Gloucester Parkway station idea is good but really should be located near the M5 Junction 12 but with the housing estates not extending south of Quedgley that plan seems off the cards.

Had that station been built then there would be a case I believe for a simple shuttle (2 per hour) service linking Cheltenham Spa, Gloucester and the new station. Services from Bristol Temple Meads and Swindon would go direct from the new station to Cheltenham. The only other services that would call at Gloucester station would be the Cross Country from Cardiff and perhaps a terminating Arriva Trains Wales service.