HST stabling at Worcester

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

No, I suspect not either.

I also suspect that the Cotswold Line's fares will rise once the re-doubling is complete. THe fares along there have been kept down owing to the service levels & journey times.

[super tm]

Just to add Anytime return via evesham 62.00 via evesham/stroud 139.00.  Bit more than 25% different.

[super tm]

No, I suspect not either.

I also suspect that the Cotswold Line's fares will rise once the re-doubling is complete. THe fares along there have been kept down owing to the service levels & journey times.

No that is not so.  The fares have been kept down due to privatisation rules.  When the railways were privatised some fares were regulated and some unregulated.

Regulated fares were saver returns and day returns.  They could only go up by a maximum of a fixed formula a year (RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) +1% or something like that)

Unregulated fares were (Cheap day returns , supersavers and open returns)  They could go up by as much as the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) wanted to.  Now a cheap day return can never cost more than a standard day and a supersaver could not cost more than a saver so that kept a lid on prices of these two ticket types.  Open returns could and did go up by huge amounts.


It just so happened that ticket via evesham to wos were statndard day returns so could only rise by small amounts tickets via evesham stroud were open returns and hence you now get the huge difference in prices.

As the evesham ticket was protected they can still only go up by RPI +1% so the fares will not increase much even after the line has been re doubled.

[ChrisB]

No that is not so. 

Oh yes it is.....

The fares have been kept down due to privatisation rules.  When the railways were privatised some fares were regulated and some unregulated.

Correct, but....

Regulated fares were saver returns and day returns.  They could only go up by a maximum of a fixed formula a year (RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) +1% or something like that)

Is nearly right. What you omit to say is that, up until very recently, that formula applied to 'baskets' of fares, not *each* individual fare. Within that basket, fares could rise +/- another 5% as long as the *average* of all those within each baskety came in at or below RPI+1%.....

So any fare could rise by up to 6% or drop by -4%. Every TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) used this to a large extent, raising high-volume fares and lowering the low-volume ones, to maximise the fare baskets.

The last Government changed the rules last January and every fare was made to 'rise' by RPI+1% - i.e. to fall slightly, in the hope of winning some votes, Fat chance of that happening!

What January 2011's rule will be is anyone's guess currently. It depends on the spending review to be announced next month. And only leaves a few weeks for implementation as they all have to be loaded into the fares sysyetem 4 weeks before January 2.

What I said abive stands.

[super tm]

What I was trying to explain is that the fares will not increase due to the the line being re-doubled.

[willc]

Chris's point about fares being held down due to service levels is correct, in particular the Saver concession for peak-time journeys from and to stations on the line which exists largely because there is nothing arriving off the Cotswold Line at Paddington between 9.45am and (depending on the timetable in force over the years) 11am-11.30am, plus, in the case of most of the halts, there is just one train a day each way.

As for fares post-redoubling, we shall see, though I suspect some kind of a rise is inevitable given current circumstances in the wider world. They were frozen this year (after a big cut in off-peak fares in January last year) specifically as a concession due to the redoubling scheme. It remains to be seen whether that policy will continue for 2011, given that the extended line closures will actually happen next year.

One factor that may restrain rises is that they are very keen to drive up custom post-redoubling, especially at the eastern end, and a big hike could stop that idea in its tracks.

[ChrisB]

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that they will go up in January. There are 3 opportunities eaxch year - January, May & September for all unregulated fares.

[IndustryInsider]

One of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) managers present said the intention was to have the sidings available for use from next May. No details were given in the minutes of what facilities may be provided, or whether extra staff would be taken on.

Yes, they've been working on the sleepers and replacing sections of track over the last few months.  Prior to that, the buddleia bushes growing in the sidings meant you would have been forgiven for not realising there were any sidings there at all.  As for facilities, I doubt much will be needed except for a walking route for the drivers.  There has been 'talk' of transferring Gloucester's FGW depot to Worcester, but I can't see that happening to be honest. 

Currently the exit from the three sidings is controlled by one semaphore ground shunting signal with the route into each siding controlled by hand points - perhaps each siding will be connected to a separate shunting signal, but I doubt that will be done due to cost, so the points will have to be hand-set by a shunter (or with a special agreement, perhaps the driver?).

[willc]

But what about water and shore power supplies? The shunt moves to get to and from the dmu depot for water (and fuel?) would be horrendous with the current track layout and I can't imagine they would want to leave three engines running all night.
.

[Tim]

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have left HST^▸ (High Speed Train) engines running all night at Worcester before and got complaints about the noise from local residents. 

[super tm]

Shore supply is now in place so no need to keep the engines running all night

[IndustryInsider]

Good point about shore supply, but the set that stables there overnight now doesn't get watered or fuelled, so it's not essential - all depends what the set(s) will be doing after they get to London.

[super tm]

3 sets from Dec AIUI^▸ (as I understand it).

[willc]

Shore supply is now in place so no need to keep the engines running all night

But that supply is presumably in the long siding south of the station, on the opposite side of the running lines (that was certainly where the set was stabled when there were the complaints over noise in summer last year), so not a lot of use in the Hereford sidings.

And I would have thought it would be worth a modest investment tapping into the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) water supply if these sidings are to be used long-term, which appears to be the intention, given that it was linked with the Reading project in the meeting. Not as if it's an idea they have come up with all of a sudden, since I think I first heard FGW^▸ (First Great Western) managers talk about stabling at Worcester in early 2008. 

[IndustryInsider]

I'm pretty sure there's no shore supply anywhere outside of the main depot at Worcester.  Yet.