New rail link is capital idea

[whole diary]

[rogerw]

There is an article on this in the next issue of "Rail" out on Wednesday

[Chris from Nailsea]

"Chiltern Railways has hired environmental consultants and will hold three public exhibitions in Oxford, Kidlington and Bicester this spring."

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/7854170.stm

[eightf48544]

Good to see Chiltern publising the scheme let's hope the nimby's don't try and kill the whole thing.

[willc]

I don't know which nimbys you have in mind.

It's already all operational railway, except for the missing link between the two lines and that would be built alongside a part of Bicester which is business park central, with dozens of trains passing all day, every day, already, so unlikely to disturb anyone at all - unless there are some newts lying in wait.

Locally the plan is seen as a good thing, see http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/search/2430855.New_rail_link_is_capital_idea/
where this thread started out, though perhaps ignore some of the more oddball reader comments....

The councils are unlikely to have a problem, as anything that keeps cars out of Oxford. like a fast, frequent train service from Bicester in place of the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trundle, will have their whole-hearted support, so if Chiltern can get the money together, it's likely to happen. Even DafT likes things it doesn't have to pay for.

FGW won't be happy, especially with Reading rebuilding looming, but their problem is that with the appallingly handled 2006 and 2007 December timetable changes, goodwill towards FGW among Oxford commuters is still in short supply, whatever improvements may have been made in the past 12 months. Plus there is plenty of express coach commuting on the M40 for Chiltern and FGW to bite into, rather than each other.

There is a recent presentation given by Chiltern to the South East regional assembly here http://www.southeast-ra.gov.uk/documents/events/52/rtb_160109_chiltern_railways_pres.pdf nothing much that new, although the service start date now seems to have slipped to 2013.

[eightf48544]

Re nimbys not sure which but they do seem to pop out of the woodwork unexpectedly.

I was thinking of the exapnsion of the park and ride and obviously the new eco town next to the line against which there is a lot of opposistion. The possible provision of station on the upgraded line might be considered a factor in favour of the new town so if the line is not upgraded then there is less reason to build the eco town. A bit convuluted but I was surprised to read the thread about the Rugby nimbys and the reopening the old GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line).

[Btline]

Hanborough's figures will fall, as people will drive to Water Eaton Parkway!

[willc]

Re nimbys not sure which but they do seem to pop out of the woodwork unexpectedly.

I was thinking of the exapnsion of the park and ride and obviously the new eco town next to the line against which there is a lot of opposistion. The possible provision of station on the upgraded line might be considered a factor in favour of the new town so if the line is not upgraded then there is less reason to build the eco town. A bit convuluted but I was surprised to read the thread about the Rugby nimbys and the reopening the old GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line).

You can pretty much forget the Weston Otmoor eco-town. It is so un-eco that a recent assessment scored it at the bottom of all the proposals, even below a last-minute lash-up scheme that Cherwell Council came up with, which is really a (far more sensible) urban extension of Bicester.

Water Eaton's car park is already huge and under-used compared with the other Oxford park-and-rides and surrounded by the main Oxford-Kidlington road, open space on two sides and the A34, the railway and a disused grain silo on the other, with the Banbury Road rail aggregates terminal close by, so no nimbys anywhere to be seen here either.

Water Eaton would attract people from Kidlington and northern and eastern parts of Oxford, but Hanborough will remain Witney Parkway. Getting to Water Eaton at rush-hour from west Oxfordshire is a long slog - unless you have actually driven in and around Oxford in rush-hour you really won't grasp how bloody awful it is, even when everything is working okay. Throw in an accident on the A34 or A40 and it's instant gridlock, even on the other side of the city.

Any space that opens up in the car park at Hanborough will be filled fast. Indeed, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and Network Rail must be cursing whoever sold or leased much of the old station yard to the Oxford Bus Museum, fine institution though it is, as they could probably fill every parking space that could be provided on that slice of land right now, never mind once there's a reliable (and hopefully more frequent) service from next year.

[John R]

Rail suggests that the line between Ruislip and Aynho is to be increase in speed to 85mph. That surprised me, as I would have thought a line substantially rebuilt during Evergreen 1 & 2 between Princes Risborough and Aynho would have already be at that sort of speed.

What is the limit on the newly redoubled stretches? Anyone know?   

[IndustryInsider]

Rail suggests that the line between Ruislip and Aynho is to be increase in speed to 85mph. That surprised me, as I would have thought a line substantially rebuilt during Evergreen 1 & 2 between Princes Risborough and Aynho would have already be at that sort of speed.

What is the limit on the newly redoubled stretches? Anyone know?   

Running South from Banbury I believe the speeds are (for Turbos):

Banbury-Aynho Junction: 90mph
Aynho Junction: 70mph (Up direction) 40mph (Down direction)
Aynho Junction-Bicester: 100mph
Bicester: 25mph (Up direction) 80mph (Down direction)
Bicester-Princes Risborough: 100mph
Princes Risborough: 70mph
Princes Risborough-West Wycombe: 75mph
West Wycombe-High Wycombe: 50mph

Then it's largely 75mph to Neasden Junction with the odd drop here and there through stations.

Possible improvements:
1) You could improve the speeds through Aynho in the down direction (but not by much as the track sweeps over the main line at quite a cant).
2) Bicester North track realignment (or a through loop) could dramatically increase on the 25mph limit in the Up direction.
3) Princes Risborough and the line through to West Wycombe could probably be increased in places, but again track curvature is tight.

Other locations would be more difficult as the track winds through the Wycombe area with some sharp twists and turns so I doubt much improvement on 50mph could take place. South-East of Wycombe there's scope to increase the 75mph sections in a number of places, but again 100mph I would have thought is impracticable - the 85mph stated would make sense.

All in all though, I can't see really impressive linespeed increases being possible for the majority of the route. That's why I'm so sceptical of this 100 minute London-Birmingham schedule, and also think the Oxford-Marylebone aspirational timings will be very challenging to achieve.

[John R]

Thanks. So the newly doubled stretch is indeed 100mph except for Bicester. So slightly inaccurate of Rail (nothing new there!). That will certainly reduce the scope for reductions in journey times as you say.

[Btline]

What timings are Chiltern expecting for Oxford?

Will the trains be extensions of Princes Ris/Bicester terminators, or will they be new "express" paths.

The other place where speeds could be improved is between Leamington and B'ham, if they re-quadruple tracked. This would help XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) speed up, as any expresses always get held up behind Centro/LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) stoppers.

[gwr2006]

Water Eaton's car park is already huge and under-used compared with the other Oxford park-and-rides and surrounded by the main Oxford-Kidlington road, open space on two sides and the A34, the railway and a disused grain silo on the other, with the Banbury Road rail aggregates terminal close by, so no nimbys anywhere to be seen here either.

Although Water Eaton Park & Ride has space for 800 cars it is normally almost full most days as it now serves as the main remote park & ride for the expanding John Radcliffe Hospital, and since the Summertown residents parking zone was introduced most of the employees working in that area have been forced to use the park & ride and the buses.

The site is in the Oxford Green Belt and the original planning application for the park & ride took several years as I think it went to an inquiry I believe. Any further development on a green field site is bound to raise objections, and if Chiltern want to build a 500 space car park that is inevitable.

[gwr2006]

What timings are Chiltern expecting for Oxford?

Will the trains be extensions of Princes Ris/Bicester terminators, or will they be new "express" paths.

The other place where speeds could be improved is between Leamington and B'ham, if they re-quadruple tracked. This would help XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) speed up, as any expresses always get held up behind Centro/LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) stoppers.

They intend two trains will run every hour, calling at High Wycombe, Bicester Town, Water Eaton Parkway and Oxford. Some trains will also stop at Islip. The currentlky projected journey times are:

London Marylebone - Water Eaton Parkway in 58  minutes
London Marylebone - Oxford   in 1hr 6 minutes
Bicester Town - Oxford in 14 minutes
Oxford - High Wycombe in 38 minutes

So far they are saying these will be extra trains and existing stopping/fast services will remain as they are now, but I think that they will eventually remove some of the existing stops at Bicester North to reduce the West Midlands-London journey time. Also, Cross Country are looking at routeing all their services via Coventry and Birmingham International which should help with paths via Solihull.

[grahame]

What timings are Chiltern expecting for Oxford?

65 minutes from Marylebone.

Oops - I see that was just answered!

And (picking up what was mentioned on another thread) it would then be a business case worth them investigating to extend on to Swindon, Westbury, Frome, Taunton, Minehead. 2 extra units needed for a service every 3 hours. Cycle - 07:25 off Marylebone, 08:35 off Oxford.  11:30 at Minehead, 11:50 return. 14:45 Oxford, 15:55 Marylebone.  Clever bit is that two units head West from Oxford one cycle earlier, and train divides at Frome with one half forming the 07:20 from there to Swindon (08:15) and Oxford (08:45) dealing with those two neglected commuter flows very effectively. In the evening, the 16:25 off Marylebone is the 17:35 off Oxford and the 18:00 off Swindon. Joins with the last train off Minehead at Frome to form the 19:20 final service up to London.  The early train to Minehead also plugs the early morning Westbury - Taunton gap; fly in the ointment is that it's awful timing as a Minehead - Taunton commuter. Other fly is that Turbos can't go through Trowbridge!

[IndustryInsider]

They intend two trains will run every hour, calling at High Wycombe, Bicester Town, Water Eaton Parkway and Oxford. Some trains will also stop at Islip. The currentlky projected journey times are:

London Marylebone - Water Eaton Parkway in 58  minutes
London Marylebone - Oxford   in 1hr 6 minutes
Bicester Town - Oxford in 14 minutes
Oxford - High Wycombe in 38 minutes

So far they are saying these will be extra trains and existing stopping/fast services will remain as they are now, but I think that they will eventually remove some of the existing stops at Bicester North to reduce the West Midlands-London journey time. Also, Cross Country are looking at routeing all their services via Coventry and Birmingham International which should help with paths via Solihull.

It's becoming clearer as the plan develops as to how important a part of the proposal the Water Eaton Parkway station will become. 58 minutes will be an appetising prospect for anyone in North Oxford fed up of battling their way through the traffic to Oxford station, or facing an uncertain parking situation and unreliable service (hopefully soon to change, relability wise at least!) at Hanborough.

As for Oxford, what are the platform arrangements expected to be? Is it just a case of opening up the current east and west former parcel dock platforms to passenger use? With very little modification the actual platforms could take a 2/3 car train respectively, though signalling would need to be modified and actually getting passengers to/from those platforms would need some looking into with barriers etc.