Cotswold Line redoubling: 2008 - 2011

[whole diary]

[stebbo]

Indeed I do know full well what the traffic on the A40 is like. I used to live in Oxford before I emigrated west, I have a son at Oxford Brookes and I do drive down the A40/M40 to get to Heathrow (admittedly not always in the rush hour).

The point was made that a Parkway style station for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would be beneficial and I agree. So my point was that the old Yarnton Junction area offers all the space you could need plus access off the A40 and, indeed from the north-east (you know, the Water Eaton/Kidlington area....) as there is the trackbed of the old freight connection from the Cotswold line to the Bicester/Cambridge line that's largely intact. And I agree you'd need to sort out a short bit of double track to get from Wolvercote to Yarnton.

I agree that the traffic can be horrendous, but seems to me that there's no room for parking at Handborough or Charlbury (even assuming in the latter case the residents or the local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) didn't cut up rough) and neither are near the main roads.

Of course, you could reinstate the old Witney/Brize Norton branch back to Witney and form a car park at Witney. Only joking/dreaming.....

Just trying to throw some suggestions into the mix.

[ChrisB]

I think we've already dealt with this parkway suggestion in that WAter Eaton Parkway will kill off any other local parkway suggestion.

[Btline]

And Water Eaton will have faster journey times than OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) station, let alone a station north. (Unless FGW^▸ (First Great Western) get their act together and make London - OXF 50 minutes.) Even then, punctuality/reliability and cheaper fares will keep people.

It seems to me that the "ship has sailed" with regards to Hanborough. When passenger numbers increased a few years ago, FGW should have capitalised and built more spaces and perhaps advertised/signposted off the A40 a "West Oxon Parkway". Now it's too late and I predict that Hanborough will soon become one of "the halts".

They should instead look at getting passengers back from the Vale of Evesham and Kingham/Charlbury. Looking at the passenger numbers is shocking. Pershore, Evesham, Kingham and Charlbury have basically not had increases for years, when they should be booming. The line has been a "cinderella" service for years, and the complacency has backfired as tired commuters drive elsewhere.
*the redoubling will help to an extent, although I hope future timetable changes will improve the service;
*a large car park expansion project, followed by advertising and plugging of the railcard. Chiltern's try us for ^1 is a good idea.
*improved stations - where passenger numbers deserve it.

When they've done this, they should get Worcester/Malvern/Hereford passengers back.
*This will require a 50 minute OXF journey - possibly needing Reading and IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.).
*And then - yes sorry - some stops will need to be axed on peak trains at least. This may require further redoubling.
*Introducing B'ham to Evesham services will encourage use of the Western part of the line, which will positively feedback to FGW, as commuters may try the train to go to Oxford or London at the weekend.

All/some of this should be included in the franchise specs. Then we need an operator with drive and ambition to fulfil the potenital of the line. There is no reason FGW can't do it, as they've shown drive elsewhere on the network (sadly not at Melksham...yet).

This region is not served by any other railways, nor Motorways or even many dual carriageways. Worcester has poor road connexions to the capital. Rail could be the answer.

[stebbo]

Concentrate on the western stops, faster services.....

Think I and one or two others argued for that a while back but got roundly abused. I'm with you on this.

Incidentally, one contributor suggested that only a handful of passengers use the line from Hereford/Worcester. From my observations, not strictly true - it is more than that. OK, so the London commuters don't start piling on until Evesham or Moreton but there is a regular stream of passengers who use the service to get up to London.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Charlbury is already getting more car park spaces (and bike racks) - funding confirmed this week. More spaces also look very likely at Hanborough in a project involving FGW^▸ (First Great Western), OCC and Cottsway Housing.

[ChrisB]

Concentrate on the western stops, faster services.....

Think I and one or two others argued for that a while back but got roundly abused. I'm with you on this.

Incidentally, one contributor suggested that only a handful of passengers use the line from Hereford/Worcester. From my observations, not strictly true - it is more than that. OK, so the London commuters don't start piling on until Evesham or Moreton but there is a regular stream of passengers who use the service to get up to London.

Not enough to fill hourly or better HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) though

[stebbo]

But I and others aren't asking for a fast hourly service. Just one or two quicker trains in the morning and evening.

[ChrisB]

Misssing out stations which are likely to have a larger pax count than Worcester?.....and hence you are pissing off more current customers than you're likely to attract.

cf the Chiltern Line - who have pissed off their suburban pax so much that more have gone elsewhere than they've attracted to the Birmingham Mainline trains.

You've got to prove your demand first, or run what you ask for without alienating your existing customer base!

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

With regard to speeding up CL services, CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) is continuing to press for this as it would seem to be possible for a number of reasons already quoted on this thread. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is deliberately being cautious as it does not want to speed services up and then be caught in the problems of a few years ago. It has agreed to look at timings after experience has been gained in running the new timetable with the extra double track. Actual timing measurements are to be carried out later this month involving FGW staff and CLPG volunteers to try and identify precisely where times could be cut - just one of the various tasks that demand significant costly labour resources and CLPG where CLPG tries to help out in a positive way.
It also should not be forgotten that Network Rail is investigating the possibilities of raising speed limits on the line up to 110 mph in parts and this could be a significant factor in getting to that overall Worcester/Paddington 2 hour timing

[ChrisB]

With the current stopping patterns, are there any lengths of track without stops where 110mph could be attained, and even maintained?....aren't the stops too close together?

[stebbo]

Don't wish to raise the temperature, but if a few stops were cut out.....

[ChrisB]

Seems there's a parrot on the board?....

[Btline]

First of all, Chiltern - the passengers complaining are Beaconsfield, Gerrards Cross, High Wycombe - that didn't have "Mainline" services before. Chiltern will need to sort out stopping patterns and coach numbers south of HW, but that is easily done.

Cotswold:

*If we had 180s - we wouldn't need to fill HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) off peak. Alternatively a 5 car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.).
*Now the redoubling is complete, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can always run additional services to allow some stops to be cut. I.e. what Chiltern, VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) et al have done - very successfully.
*How quickly could you do OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) to Charlbury and Morteon - Evesham - Worcester with no stops at 110mph? (This would be an evening peak service) Complete with more car parking, this would bring lots of people back to the line. Commuters to Charlbury, Morteon and Evesham and businessmen/day trippers to Worcester, Malvern and Hereford. Hanborough, Honeybourne and Pershore would still retain an hourly service (perfectly adequate for VILLAGE stations), the "express" slotted in between. London to Oxford 50 mins. Oxford to Worcester 60 mins?
*The extra capacity created from this would soon be filled.
*Axe Finstock, Combe and Ascott. For goodness sake, Combe station is closer to Long Hanborough than Combe! Ascott is a 5 minute drive (google maps) from Shipton station. Many people in cities have to travel further than 5 minutes to get to the station. How it is justifiable to keep this station open for a handful of passengers I don't know! It's scandalous that money was spent on a second platform.

[inspector_blakey]

Can I respectfully suggest a bit of a time-out at this point?

This thread has provided a great deal of interesting information and a good record of the redoubling of the Cotswold Line over the last few years. Debating future service patterns and opportunities that the improved infrastructure might provide is entirely legitimate, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that there are two, ahem, rather entrenched schools of thought on the issue.

Over the last few days the tone of the debate here has become somewhat personal, and we are also in danger of going round and round in circles with the same arguments being repeated and rehashed, then lobbed over No Man's Land into the opposing trenches like grenades. Of course there's no objection to people having strong opinions, but it is incumbent on all sides of the debate not to let them boil over and to avoid the thread degenerating in to personal and petty squabbling.

Please folks, before we have any more posts on this issue of service patterns, it would be much appreciated if you could take a few minutes to consider whether what you're posting has been said already, and to ensure that the tone is not unduly confrontational. It would be a real shame if this thread came to an ignominious end by being locked, especially after it has come so far.

Thanks.

[ChrisB]

Suggest splitting the post-redoubling part of this thread away & renaming it, leaving the redoubling thread to stay as history, possibly locking it for a little while to ensure fresh posts end up in the right thread until the 'old' one slips down the pile?