Running Early

[whole diary]

[John R]

LIVE DEPARTURES:
12:02 NAILSEA & BACKWELL TO CARDIFF CENTRAL
First Great Western
As of: Wednesday 12 November 2008 11:49:47
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This train is expected to arrive on platform 2.
Expected to arrive Nailsea & Backwell on time.
Expected to depart Nailsea & Backwell on time.


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Nailsea & Backwell Station Information
Service Bulletins affecting Nailsea & Backwell

STATION TIMETABLE EXPECTED ACTUAL
Taunton Dep11:04 _ On time
Bridgwater Dep11:16 _ 11:18
Highbridge & Burnham Dep11:24 _ 11:27
Weston-super-Mare Dep11:40 _ On time
Worle Dep11:50 _ 11:45
Yatton Dep11:56 On time _
Nailsea & Backwell (Your station) Arr12:02 On time _
Dep12:02 On time _
Bristol Temple Meads Arr12:15 On time _
Filton Abbey Wood Arr12:29 On time _
Patchway Arr12:34 On time _
Severn Tunnel Junction Arr12:45 On time _
Newport (South Wales) Arr13:04 On time _
Cardiff Central Arr13:27 On time _


I'd be a bit miffed if I were expecting to catch this at Worle. Left 5 minutes early???

[gaf71]

I would imagine the guard misread, or didn't look at their diagram. 10 mins from WSM to WOR is quite alot, probably supposed to wait at Worle junction for something to pass on the mainline. Looks like the guard noticed the timings and sat at Yatton, to leave correct time. You're right though, I'd not be too happy turning up at Worle, 4 mins before advertised dep. time, to see train sailing into the distance!

[eightf48544]

Now that the TV semi fasts to Reading are more sensibly diagrammed we've noticed that at Taplow that the drivers are often on the move 30 secs before departure.

Which is enough time to miss a train from the main  gate on platform 4.

[John R]

I would imagine the guard misread, or didn't look at their diagram. 10 mins from WSM to WOR is quite alot, probably supposed to wait at Worle junction for something to pass on the mainline. Looks like the guard noticed the timings and sat at Yatton, to leave correct time. You're right though, I'd not be too happy turning up at Worle, 4 mins before advertised dep. time, to see train sailing into the distance!

It must have been looped at Yatton as a northbound HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sailed through Nailsea before it. I was tempted to ask the TM^‡(resolve), but I didn't get my ticket checked.

[G.Uard]

Now that the TV semi fasts to Reading are more sensibly diagrammed we've noticed that at Taplow that the drivers are often on the move 30 secs before departure.

Which is enough time to miss a train from the main  gate on platform 4.

Doors are now locked shut 40 seconds before departure, (if the station announcer at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) is to be believed). We are told to initiate dispatch 30 seconds before time.

[devon_metro]

I would imagine the guard misread, or didn't look at their diagram. 10 mins from WSM to WOR is quite alot, probably supposed to wait at Worle junction for something to pass on the mainline. Looks like the guard noticed the timings and sat at Yatton, to leave correct time. You're right though, I'd not be too happy turning up at Worle, 4 mins before advertised dep. time, to see train sailing into the distance!

It must have been looped at Yatton as a northbound HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sailed through Nailsea before it. I was tempted to ask the TM^‡(resolve), but I didn't get my ticket checked.

Indeed, arrived and departed at Yatton at 1157.

Worle:
Station/CRS/scheduled arr/sheduled dep/actual arr/actual depart/platform/delay
Worle [WOR]         1150    1150    No log    1145    2    -5

[Chris from Nailsea]

Doors are now locked shut 40 seconds before departure, (if the station announcer at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) is to be believed). We are told to initiate dispatch 30 seconds before time.

I do sympathise with your doubts, G.Uard, but I think we're talking about two quite different people here. 

The 'live' announcer at BTM is an excellent chap, making clear and accurate announcements 'real-time' - from past experience, I trust whatever he says.

On the other hand, the 'pre-recorded' male voice announcer, who just regurgitates that nonsense about "In order to achieve a timely departure, doors will be locked forty seconds beforehand" is clearly a comedian.  Particularly when his announcement cuts in, just after the 17:53 has departed, late and leaving behind almost as many passengers as were able to get aboard (Monday and Tuesday this week: I know, I was there, on both occasions!) 

[Btline]

How many computers does BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) have? Digital Doris, Phil Sawyer .......

[Chris from Nailsea]

At least four voices, for computer-generated announcements, Btline! 

1. Phil Sawyer: male voice - the original, standard, professional pre-recorded announcements;

2. Comedian: male voice - recent, more authoritarian, announcements about not smoking or skateboarding on the platforms (as if anyone's actually enforcing that);

3. Digital Doris: ex-Wessex, burbles gibberish (and is often cut off by live male announcer, correcting her more ludicrous announcements);

4. Nameless female voice - witters on about 'unattended articles'.

No: for me, the excellent chap who does the live announcements at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) is the only one I actually believe! 

[John R]

But coming back to the original thread, how on earth can a train depart a booked stop 5 minutes early?

[G.Uard]

I didn't intend to cast aspersions on the excellent 'human' staff at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)). However, the dysfunctional digital family at BTM and elsewhere are little short of an annoyance, at all levels  it seems.  My point, perhaps badly made, was  that arriving with 30 seconds, or even a minute to spare is no guarantee of catching a train running to time.

Most of us on the local services will hold a train for passengers making a dash, but please appreciate that once the doors are closed, that is it! Entry can only be via the local crew door.

[eightf48544]

This whole post raises some interesting points.

Namely is the advertised departure time of a train the latest time that you can board or as seems to be the case the time that the train should have all doors closed and locked and start to move?

Therefore, should the publicly advertised departure time be say  30 secs or a minute before actual departure time?

How would this work in the TV with DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)). At the moment the train can arrive a minute early and the driver will shut the doors say 35 secs before departure and start to roll seemingly 30 secs early. If the say the running time from Maidenhead to Taplow was cut from 4 to 3 minutes (easy) in the public timetable then the public dpearture time from Taplow would be the train arrival time. Then the driver can close the doors as soon as the passengers have boarded and be away on the Working Timetable time.

Should there be different times btween public and working timetables for manned stations with despatchers, guard operated trains and DOO?

So basically what I am saying is should the public timetable only show arrival times, and the working timetable either show arrival and departure times or have only actual departure times with running times shown between stations?

It might make the timetables a bit brisker, the performance measures might have to be altered to make sure they measured public arrival time.

People on the Cotswold line might start complaining if they are ready to board at arrival time and find they have to sit for for 15 minutes before departure.

[John R]

But I was talking about 5 mins, not the odd 30 secs, which I think most regular travellers recognise (even if they don't like when it makes all the difference.)

[devon_metro]

But coming back to the original thread, how on earth can a train depart a booked stop 5 minutes early?

The 0743 Penzance - Paddington is booked to pass this service whilst the unit is at Weston and presumably it was late. Hence the unit was put out in front and having seen no passengers on the platform the guard simply forgot to wait for 5 minutes for booked time.

[John R]

Ah, that makes sense. Instead of getting held at Worle Jn, it was cleared for the main line (probably mistakenly). Indeed, that having happened, had it waited at Worle it would have delayed the 0743 by a further 5 minutes.   So in terms of overall passenger benefit it was probably the right thing to happen, although I presume it was unintentional, as the TM^‡(resolve) would not have known the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) was behind?