200 new coaches to be brought forward

[whole diary]

[John R]

Announced in the Pre Budget statement today, though no indication of which they are. Given that it is taking for ever to sign off the TP Express 4th coach, it will be interesting to see what the detail is. Of course if they are built abroad (ie anyone but Bombardier) then they will hardly stimulate the economy. And if built at Derby there is quite a full order book, so quite how practical that is remains to be seen.

Only infrastructure projects accelerated appears to be hard shoulder running projects on Motorways. Whereas ^200m spent on a few well placed NR^» (Network Rail - home page) projects which fail to make the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) Review cut would be most welcome. Kemble - Swindon for one.     

[paul7575]

I think the best suggestion for which carriages should be brought forward is the London Midland, Chiltern, and LO 172s. I can't recall exactly how many, but the aim is to allow all the older LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) & LO DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) to be cascaded eleswhere, eg to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and Northern. They seem the key to a lot of plans, but seem to be behind the 378s in the build queue.

There was a bit about Derby works in one of the mags a few months back, suggested they have space to increase the number of assembly lines if orders increase, bearing in mind their biggest current order is the LU sub surface stock.

EDIT:  the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s own news release now includes...

"The delivery of 200 new carriages earlier than originally expected for rail
passengers in the Thames Valley, around Bristol and on longer distance
inter-urban services in Northern England"

http://nds.coi.gov.uk:80/environment/fullDetail.asp?ReleaseID=385408&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=False

Which sounds like it includes TPEx after all...
Paul

[northwesterntrains]

It has been recommended in that TP Express won't get extra carriages to go on to 185s.

Instead TP Express should be getting extra 3 car trains to run an additional hourly Manchester Piccadilly to York service.  But I have no idea what trains they'll get and when the extra service will start.

For Manchester Piccadilly to Preston, Northern Rail will run an additional hourly Manchester to Preston service from December 15th.

This, however, won't cure all overcrowding, nor deal with projected growth of passengers.

[eightf48544]

Sorry to sound cynical but the whole new rolling progtamme seems to be a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic.

We now only have Derby which seems to busy with 378s for Overground East london Line. Being electric they don't displace any DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) because the lines are already electrified.

Most of the continental manufactures are busy building things for themselves.

China? But has been said before it doesn't stimulate our economy.

Why not Networkrail 5% 15+ year bonds for electrification. The institutions would snap them up.

[John R]

EDIT:  the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s own news release now includes...

"The delivery of 200 new carriages earlier than originally expected for rail
passengers in the Thames Valley, around Bristol and on longer distance
inter-urban services in Northern England"

Paul

Now I had naiveley assumed that the reason for the delay in the build of the 172s was that was the time needed to gear up for manufacture etc. If we're now told that they will be delivered earlier then does it mean that the contract specified those delivery dates, notwithstanding the builder could deliver them earlier? (In which case shame on the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) for specifying a delay in delivery). Or that Bombardier quoted a very conservative delivery date, and is now able to bring it forward (in which case the government is taking credit for something that isn't really anything to do with their actions.)

Wonder what the new delivery dates are? Anyone know?

[paul7575]

52 new carriages for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) according to:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Bristol-s-Great-Western-set-52-extra-carriages/article-501447-detail/article.html

I suggest 13 x 4 car 172s with a longer distance interior, for the Portsmouth - Cardiff route (which FGW DO consider a 'Bristol area' service after all)...

Paul

[Timmer]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) DO consider a 'Bristol area' service after all)...

They do which is a little insulting to the other major towns and cities served by the Cardiff-Portsmouth line. Call me old fashioned but I liked it when it was referred to as the Severn Solent line.

Great Great news about new rolling stock for the line though.

[paul7575]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) DO consider a 'Bristol area' service after all)...

They do which is a little insulting to the other major towns and cities served by the Cardiff-Portsmouth line. Call me old fashioned but I liked it when it was referred to as the Severn Solent line.

Great Great news about new rolling stock for the line though.

OK - 'Timmer, you are old-fashioned'
One of the comments on the news site reckons it is units for Cardiff - Portsmouth - I wonder if he has insider info...

Paul

[willc]

BUT the Bristol Evening Post really ought to have read the DafT press release more carefully. It says quite clearly:

"The delivery of 200 new carriages earlier than originally expected for rail passengers in the Thames Valley, around Bristol and on longer distance inter-urban services in Northern England;"

The 52 has always been spoken of as a global total for new FGW^▸ (First Great Western) rolling stock, including Paddington commuter services, and the above suggests that has not changed. Nor has anyone ever been able to pin down if new really means newly-built when it comes to the stock coming to FGW, so don't get your hopes up just yet.

Slight update:

While putting out the recycling, November Modern Railways resurfaced. The split of FGW stock was 12 class 150 vehicles for Bristol area services and 40 for the Thames Valley, type unknown, with Chiltern hinting they would quite like some FGW 165s, rather than them taking any extra build of 172s, so how about a 172 able to couple to 165/166s? Trans-Pennine Express is slated to get 42 extra coaches, and Northern is as desperate as FGW for extra stock and will take any 'new' 150s from London Midland it can get.

I would love to think FGW would get 52 new-build coaches for Bristol area and Cardiff-Portsmouth, plus 40 more for the Thames Valley, but until I see it in full detail, in black and white, I won't believe it.

[r james]

Yeah, in the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) article shown above, it doesn't seem to mention any new stock for FGW^▸ (First Great Western), just cascaded, earlier than anticipated as the newer bulds will be ready sooner.

Though how about North of England.... what ws this ever planned to get? 

[Timmer]

I base my expectation that the new rolling stock will go to the Cardiff-Portsmouth line on the minutes from the recent West customer panel meeting which mentions on page 2:

New rolling stock for Cardiff ^ Portsmouth and subsequent cascade of 158s

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Documents/Custom/Customer%20panel/West%20CP%20meeting%2015.10.08%20minutes%20-%20WEBSITE.pdf

[paul7575]

Yeah, in the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) article shown above, it doesn't seem to mention any new stock for FGW^▸ (First Great Western), just cascaded, earlier than anticipated as the newer bulds will be ready sooner.

Though how about North of England.... what ws this ever planned to get? 

I've checked all the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) references, and they consistently say ""The delivery of 200 new carriages earlier than originally expected for rail passengers in the Thames Valley, around Bristol and on longer distance inter-urban services in Northern England".

I.e. FGW and TPEx, and no mention of a cascade at all?

Northern were down to get the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s, ie 26 or 27, [less the 6 units Modern Rail consistently refer to that were to go to FGW], so say 20, and an undecided number of new DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) bringing them up to 158 DMU carrriages. 

Not sure where the LO 150s end up though, they're also in the mix somewhere.

Paul

[tramway]

A deal somewhere to lose 158's from the West with a dedicated 'New fleet' for Portsmouth/Cardiff with the remainder being 150's?

[paul7575]

A deal somewhere to lose 158's from the West with a dedicated 'New fleet' for Portsmouth/Cardiff with the remainder being 150's?

It's a moot point, as we know 158s are not optimal stock for closely spaced commuter services, due their end doors, this is apparent on SWT^▸ (South West Trains) locals at Southampton as well, the 170s with 1/3 2/3 doors were much better for that.  Numbers wise could 158s specialise in longer routes with 150s retained for more local services?

Paul

[tramway]

172/4 for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) now on Wikipedia