More distorted ticket prices

[whole diary]

[Tim]

The ticket says to be used only with reservations. Do some people really suffer from a complete lack of common sense?

What is doesn't say is that if you travel on the next train you will be charged a second full fare (and possibly a penalty fare) and that money already paid will not be taken into account.  It might be obvious to some people but there are plenty of people who don't know how the system works.  The ignorant are sometimes people new to rail and it is bad business practice to start fining new customers even if they couldn't be bothered to read the small print if it means that they never travel on a train again.  In the current issue of Rail Barry Doe reports on a passenger who had an open ticket and reservation who didn't realise that his ticket was valid on any train that day.  You also hear of people who think that they need to buy a separate ticket for each leg of their journey when they are changing trains.   Previous postings on this forum reveal that some members didn't realise that an advanced fare might be able to be refunded at a ticket office for a handling charge (this is all teh kind of information you get printed on an airline ticket.

I am all for coming down hard on fare evaders but the flip side of this is that information on ticket validity as well as the consequences of travelling outside of it need to be explained much better- otherwise in addition to the fraudulent, you end up presecuting people who are merely stupid, lazy, confused or ignorant and who might make good customers if they could only be educated.

So come on TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).  Lets have better information on the back of tickets and if you wan't people to buy before they board how about painting this message on doors of your trains?  I know it is pandering to the stupid, but I can't see it doing any harm.   

[basset44]

Yes I thought I read on this forum that advanced fares could be refunded. I remember APEX fares could not. What confuses me and does not help is when you actually go to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ticket site. I have just tried this

Cardiff to London going out on the 10th February after 9.00 am and return 12th February after 12.00, the first screen comes up single tickets no advance singles are refundable but the 60.00 pound off-peak single is. Therefore on that page the cheapest flexable return ticket is 120.00 before peak.

If you go to the return page, bearing in mind I asked for a return you are presented with a off-peak return at 61.00 pound which is refundable.

Like I said I now think I understand the ticket prices but it is still confusing and would it not be easier for everybody if they put something like Non Refudable / changeable on the screen.

[bemmy]

I am all for coming down hard on fare evaders but the flip side of this is that information on ticket validity as well as the consequences of travelling outside of it need to be explained much better- otherwise in addition to the fraudulent, you end up presecuting people who are merely stupid, lazy, confused or ignorant and who might make good customers if they could only be educated.

So come on TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).  Lets have better information on the back of tickets and if you wan't people to buy before they board how about painting this message on doors of your trains?  I know it is pandering to the stupid, but I can't see it doing any harm.   

If the government bodies meant all their fine words in numerous documents about "modal shift" they would address these issues. However for them it is enough that the train companies can advertise a ticket from Penzance to Aberdeen for a fiver.

There seems to be a school of thought that people ought to be prepared to make the effort to learn all the Mysteries of Railway Ticketing. Whyever should they? if they find it too much hassle they will drive. When you drive you don't have to plan your journey 12 weeks in advance to avoid paying 10 times as much for your petrol. When you drive you don't have to take a detour adding 100 miles to your journey because it's a Saturday. When you drive you are guaranteed a seat in your car. And so on.

I'm not against "demand management" altogether... some kind of premium for peak services is reasonable to spread demand and make more efficient use of resources. But the current ticketing situation is absurd and perverse. And the government's long term strategy is not to have less of the "demand management" on the railways.... instead, they want to progressively introduce it on the roads.... maybe when the London congestion charge reaches ^200 per day there will actually be some "modal shift" back to the railways. 

[G.Uard]

The solution would be to allow you to print your own tickets at home.  I know that there are issues with forgery, but there are ways around this (afterall the Royal Mail lets you print your own stamps and can check to see if they are genuine)

Like this ticket I printed before leaving for India:



Passenger no 1 has to have the ID card with the stated number, otherwise the ticket is not valid. In Britain, as guards have credit card terminals, it should be sufficient to carry the card used to buy the ticket online.

I have got a few of those.  Darn good system IMO^▸ (in my opinion) and it works very well.  The scrum for unreserved 2nd class at Mumbai CST is almost as bad as the morning scenes at Yate though.

[Zoe]

The move towards a book in advance or pay expensive fares system is not helping with any modal shift.  If anything it's making the car more attractive as it does not cost you more if you don't plan your journey in advance.

[eightf48544]

The move towards a book in advance or pay expensive fares system is not helping with any modal shift.  If anything it's making the car more attractive as you does not cost you more if you don't plan your journey in advance.

Well said, but then the Ministry of Motoring (DafT) doesn't actually want people to switch to rail as it would mean more investment to cater for the extra passengers.

[Zoe]

Well said, but then the Ministry of Motoring (DafT) doesn't actually want people to switch to rail as it would mean more investment to cater for the extra passengers.

Yes but they also don't want to invest in road building and tell people they should get out of their cars.

[simonw]

The only reasonable way to implement a reasonable ticket price structure is to price all journeys by disatance, and whether they use a station or line at peak time.

The arcane pricing method that currently allows me to save ^25 per week by buying two weekly season tickets, rather that one is maddening.

Ticket types should be

open - any day, any train on that day
day open - any train on a set day
fixed - specific train on a set day

and the cost of the ticket should relate to distance travelled, and congestion of the route.

[super tm]

The only reasonable way to implement a reasonable ticket price structure is to price all journeys by disatance, and whether they use a station or line at peak time.

The arcane pricing method that currently allows me to save ^25 per week by buying two weekly season tickets, rather that one is maddening.

Ticket types should be

open - any day, any train on that day
day open - any train on a set day
fixed - specific train on a set day

and the cost of the ticket should relate to distance travelled, and congestion of the route.

The tickets are priced by congestion of the route.  That is why it is cheaper for you to buy two tickets.  In the old BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days you werent allowed to use combination season tickets so fares were set depending how busy /  congested the route was.  I assume that one of you season tickets was for a route that was not so busy so was set cheaper than the busier longer journey. Of course we are talking about how busy it was 15 years ago so a lot can have change since then.

Since privatisation season tickets became regulated meaning that it is no longer possible to get rid of these anomolies. Well unless a rail company is going to reduce the price of a season ticket which is not going to happen !!

[vacman]

Well unless a rail company is going to reduce the price of a season ticket which is not going to happen !!

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) reduced the Cornish seasons quite heavily when they restricted the local railcard to off peak only, a falmouth-Truro 7 day went from about ^17 to ^11.60.

[Tim]

The move towards a book in advance or pay expensive fares system is not helping with any modal shift.  If anything it's making the car more attractive as you does not cost you more if you don't plan your journey in advance.

Well said, but then the Ministry of Motoring (DafT) doesn't actually want people to switch to rail as it would mean more investment to cater for the extra passengers.

Nigel Harris in this weeks Rail writing about Virgin WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) VHF timetable (train every 20 minutes from London to Manchester) asks what is the point of spending ^9 Billion of taxpayers money to upgrade a line to "turn up and go" frequencies when their are no longer any affordable turn up and go fares?

[John R]

Nigel's point is absolutely spot on. And why fill all the seats with people travelling for ^9 or whatever, so full fare passengers still can't get a seat.

[super tm]

And why dont they put the season tickets up.  If they do it for the new javelin service surely the same should happen on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line)?

[Timmer]

Nigel Harris in this weeks Rail writing about Virgin WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) VHF timetable (train every 20 minutes from London to Manchester) asks what is the point of spending ^9 Billion of taxpayers money to upgrade a line to "turn up and go" frequencies when their are no longer any affordable turn up and go fares?

Running a service every 20 minutes to me implies a turn up and go service so surely fares should be adjusted to encourage just that.