Fatalities at Hayes & Harlington - merged topic

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, that was the train involved.

[gpn01]

BUT I still reckon that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (and whoever was involved behind the scenes in terms of scheduling) did a stirling job.

Unfortunately that wasn't the case at Paddington last night. In my experience FGW are normally quite good at resuming services after major disruption but yesterday too many trains were going from 'On Time' to 'Delayed' then 'Cancelled'. It seemed to me that there was no efficient planning to decide in good time whether or not a service could actually run.

Thanks to previous experience of such events, I headed off to Marylebone as soon as I saw what was happening at Paddington.   Talking to fellow passengers this morning, that decision was quite a good one.

Something that FGW  really needs to sort out is its sharing of information.  I went past Marylebone on the Bakerloo and if there'd be an announcement on the tube I could have got off at Marylebone.  Instead I, like many others, continued to Paddington, learned of the problems and then took the tube back to Marylebone.  That's just adding a further load on the tube that could be avoided.  Oh, and my daily email alert at 17:00 from FGW said there weren't any delays!

[chineseJohn]

17:07 - I was sat on the 17:06 when they made the announcement we were held due to person under train, nothing was leaving
17:25 - I got off and decided to go back to work and do a couple of hours
18:30 - I got a text saying 2 of 4 lines were reopened, decided to sit it out as Paddington would be crowded
19:35 - I then left work at 19:35, missed the delayed 19:35 instead got the 20:00 , arrived Reading at 20:45, a lady on the platform was being seen to by staff, looks like she had passed out on a train
20:50 - boarded the 20:41 (which was held to let the 2 Plymouth fast trains through) which left Reading at 21:05, home at 21:20

I didn't hang around Paddington when it was announced but I heard some people having a go at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff which I think is uncalled for it was not their fault

[BerkshireBugsy]

I didn't hang around Paddington when it was announced but I heard some people having a go at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff which I think is uncalled for it was not their fault

Totally agree.




Edited to fix quote. bignosemac.

[jane s]

Got to Ealing Broadway intending to catch the 17:33 (there was nothing on the website to indicate a problem before I left - why?) but they weren't allowing anyone on the platform & told us to go to Waterloo. From previous experience of doing that I calculated that it would be evens at best as to which way would be quicker so I got the tube to Paddington & waited it out there.

I ended up as one of the sardines on the (almost 1-hour-late) 18:03 to Penzance - which was definitely "the first [fast] train out" as the train manager proudly informed us. As expected, things slowed down at Southall as we waited to cross onto the relief lines, and then as we passed the scene.

But then we were abandoned to our fate on the relief line all the way to Reading, ending up stuck behind a stopper from (presumably?) Slough, while as we neared Reading, other trains which had left Paddington after us merrily sped past us on the main line. To add insult to injury, we then had to queue for a platform at Reading behind one of them.

Surely it's not unreasonable to expect that the trains would have arrived at Reading in the same order as when they left Paddington? (Which would have been the same order as they were originally timetabled to leave anyway). If you are prepared to endure such hellish conditions just to be on the first train out because you need to get home by a particular time, surely you should not have to put up with being overtaken by supposedly "later" trains making you even later than you originally were. We eventually arrived at Reading at 20:15, a journey time of over an hour for what should have been a 25-minute journey. I had expected that we would be be switched back to the main line as soon as we were past the scene, and then to have had a completely free run at full line speed to Reading. Even the train manager was perplexed and annoyed and said he was trying to find out what was going on. Can someone please explain to me (and my fellow-sufferers) why did this not happen?

[Western Enterprise]

I got to Paddington and saw some fellow Maidenhead commuters coming the other way. When I got down the ramp onto the lawn, it was absolutely rammed with people, pretty much confused. Lots of tourist wandering around. If this happens during the Games goodness knows what will happen.

Did consider going via Waterloo but thought it would also be rammed and a long stopper to Windsor. The choice about going via Marylebone someone has said is a good one, I might make that in future. Are Chiltern pretty good at ticket swapping as far a High Wycombe, or do you need a new ticket etc?
Instead I went to the Pride of Paddington and settled down with a pint or two of Pride, and a copy of BRM.....
Whilst mulling around I did see a turbo unit and it was absolutely rammed with passengers, but with no driver. In the cab the other end there must have been half a dozen fgw employees, all trying to get home as well. Did make me lol!

[johoare]

Presumably johoare is referring to the 1922 Hereford service.

I boarded this at Reading, from where it departed about 90 minutes late.  The Train Manager apologised for the delay, explaining that because of the fatality, the original crew members were not at Paddington and replacements had to be found.  The train was further delayed at Didcot East and outside Oxford station, from where it departed 99 minutes late.

Because of this, planned engineering work at Moreton-in-Marsh had to be delayed.  By this time, trains were supposed to be terminating at/starting from Charlbury, with bus replacements to/from Worcester.

The following 2020 from Paddington to Charlbury was cancelled, although, somehow, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) managed to provide a 2207 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from Charlbury, which should have been the 2020's return working.

A total pity they didn't mention anything at Paddington after they had crammed us all on to the train and left us for 35 minutes with no information in my opinion then.. I guess they knew the crew members weren't at Paddington and weren't likely to be for some time at that point.. As I and many people have said before Information is very important yet FGW seem to fail on it a lot

[Electric train]

I ended up as one of the sardines on the (almost 1-hour-late) 18:03 to Penzance - which was definitely "the first [fast] train out" as the train manager proudly informed us. As expected, things slowed down at Southall as we waited to cross onto the relief lines, and then as we passed the scene.

But then we were abandoned to our fate on the relief line all the way to Reading, ending up stuck behind a stopper from (presumably?) Slough, while as we neared Reading, other trains which had left Paddington after us merrily sped past us on the main line. To add insult to injury, we then had to queue for a platform at Reading behind one of them.

Surely it's not unreasonable to expect that the trains would have arrived at Reading in the same order as when they left Paddington? (Which would have been the same order as they were originally timetabled to leave anyway). If you are prepared to endure such hellish conditions just to be on the first train out because you need to get home by a particular time, surely you should not have to put up with being overtaken by supposedly "later" trains making you even later than you originally were. We eventually arrived at Reading at 20:15, a journey time of over an hour for what should have been a 25-minute journey. I had expected that we would be be switched back to the main line as soon as we were past the scene, and then to have had a completely free run at full line speed to Reading. Even the train manager was perplexed and annoyed and said he was trying to find out what was going on. Can someone please explain to me (and my fellow-sufferers) why did this not happen?

That's the risk of being on the first train out, the line(s) directly affected by the incident may remain closed and those not affected are opened up for traffic while the final stages of hand back is done, so your train was sent out on the Main and crossed over to the Relief Lines because of the Main remained closed the reopening of the affected lines is not an exact science; Control would have made the decision to leave your train on the Relief Line to save slowing trains that were being let through on the Main also they do not run the risk of a points failure.

Personally I try to avoid "the first train out" they are always rammed

[eightf48544]

Control would have made the decision to leave your train on the Relief Line to save slowing trains that were being let through on the Main also they do not run the risk of a points failure.

Says it all about the current state of the  railway daren't use the crossovers for fear of points failure.

[Louis94]

Control would have made the decision to leave your train on the Relief Line to save slowing trains that were being let through on the Main also they do not run the risk of a points failure.

Says it all about the current state of the  railway daren't use the crossovers for fear of points failure.

Surely no set of points is more likely to fail than another? Makes sense to avoid any further disruption - rather than cross the service over and then run the risk of a points failure.

[mathmo]

Was the information about lines being opened accurate?  National Rail Twitter said that two lines were reopened at 6:28.  I was sat at Langley station from about 6:45 and absolutely no trains came through heading away from London between then and about 7:20 when a stopper arrived (followed by a couple of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) I think), whilst at least three or four trains headed through in the other direction.  Did it take that long to get anything moving?

[eightf48544]

Mathmo: Your problem was that once past Dolphin Jn (between Langley and Slough) there is no right hand cross over until Southall West to get you on the Up Main, which is beyond Hayes where the incident was. Hence no trains on the Up Relief. At least you were stuck at a station.

If you can't rely on the points what's the point (agg!) having them?

[OxfordNick]

Yes exactly, I'd rather sit it out at Paddington where there is food, drink and toilets as well as leg-stretching possibilities. I've heard a rumour that the train involved in last night's incident, the 16:49 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-OXF^» (Oxford - next trains), was stationary for about 3 hours before it could be moved (due to brake pipe damage), that must have been hellish for everyone on board.

Hey - Im a long time lurker here but never had anything worth saying, but I thought I should sign up since I happened to be on the 16:49 on Tuesday so may be able to add some insight.

Was dozing in carriage B (about 3/4 full, lots of empty reserved seats..) and making good time until there was a big bang going thru Hayes station (5pm), lots of ballast thrown up as we went under the bridge there, & the train comes to a gentle stop by the side of the Heathrow spur - pretty clear we had hit something.

And there we sat for just under three hours. Crew were very good at keeping us informed, using both the tannoy at the regulation 15min intervals + walking thru the train & repeating the messages / talking to people every so often. Wasnt too busy at the front of the train thankfully so there was space to get up & wander around + they opened the buffet for water / Tea (definitely no Alcohol!) - Ive had worse delays, may have been worse up the back 'cos people do tend to cram in back there.

From what I could see, which wasn't all that much being alongside the Heathrow spur bridge, it took about an hour for the police to do their inspection & for the relief line to open, mainline being blocked by us - about another hour for two fitters to be delivered from Reading on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), at which time trains started going up to London on the mainline past us slowly. Fitters did their thing shutting off the leaking air lines & fuel line (we were told there was a big hole in the front of the train which had done quite a lot of damage) & releasing the brakes manually. Just before 8pm we chugged off slowly to Slough where we all got to pile on to a turbo to Reading & then onwards.

I wandered up to the front of the platform @ Slough & had a quick peek at the front of the train - there was indeed a big hole where the grill normally is on the top of the power car nose; must have been head on & thus really unpleasant for the driver. Never the less he had the wits to let the train coast until it was past the junction for the Heathrow spur so that the HEX could get going again ASAP - good man !

Quite impressed with the way we were treated whilst we were stuck, so will be dropping a nice email to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) today since I expect that they could do with a bit of positive input. Cant really say the same about the hour it took to get from Slough to Didcot, but at least I got to see how the Reading works are coming along (thats a big job!) & finally got home just before 10pm, a full six hours after I left my office for the day.

[jane s]

I was sat at Langley station from about 6:45 and absolutely no trains came through heading away from London between then and about 7:20 when a stopper arrived (followed by a couple of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) I think),

Well I was on the first of those HST's then! What I don't get is where that stopper came from to get in front of us if the lines were supposed to be closed?

"Control would have made the decision to leave your train on the Relief Line to save slowing trains that were being let through on the Main"

But all the trains on the main SHOULD have been slowed to let us get back on to the main line without any of them being able to overtake us, that is the whole point! If anything it is some of the later departures that should have been left on the relief, especially if they were less likely to catch up to a stopper in the process.

[IndustryInsider]

Hey - Im a long time lurker here but never had anything worth saying, but I thought I should sign up since I happened to be on the 16:49 on Tuesday so may be able to add some insight.

Thanks for those comments, OxfordNick - The importance of the on-board staff keeping everybody up-to-date cannot be underestimated when a train is involved in a serious incident like this.  I know the TM^‡(resolve) concerned, so will pass on your comments to him.

Though, to be fair, as soon as the driver hit somebody there would be an emergency brake application and the train would stop wherever it stops, so it would have been more luck than skill that the train was clear of the HEx lines.  Drivers are under instruction to avoid stopping in tunnels or on viaducts if possible, but that's it.

Got to Ealing Broadway intending to catch the 17:33 (there was nothing on the website to indicate a problem before I left - why?)

What time did you check the website?  The incident itself happened at just gone 5pm, so a couple of minutes for that to filter through to control a few more minutes to realise the implications of it and form a rough service recovery plan, and a few more minutes to type that into the systems that update the website and I'd have thought that 5:15ish would have been the earliest you could have expected anything online about the situation.

Well I was on the first of those HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s then! What I don't get is where that stopper came from to get in front of us if the lines were supposed to be closed?

It would probably have started at Slough.  Local services were being turned back at Slough - the last place you can do that with proper signalling until Hayes itself.