I E P why do we need it?

[whole diary]

[dog box]

Why do we actually need to build this? whats actually wrong with an HST^▸ (High Speed Train),that dictates total replacement? and would it not be easier to build MK5 coaches and new self propelled power cars that could either be reengineered for electric ,or be replaced with new electric power cars

[thetrout]

Whilst I am a huge fan of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train), they are getting on a bit and I'm told that they only have about 10 - 15 years...? more life in them before they expire.

It would be better to build MK5 carriages similar to the MK4 design because they are proven to be reliable and comfortable. When I say that what we don't want is engines underneath each carriage for long distance services, I think the majority would agree with me

[devon_metro]

Indeed, Mk5 stock would be flexible, like the most succesful coach design ever. (Mk3)

If it breaks, get a new loco on the front, if its summer, add a coach. Simple.

[Electric train]

The first of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s entered service in 1976 therefore in 10 years time they will be over 40 years old while they are sturdy build and have proven themselves time and time again it would be more economic to build new than carry out a major strip out and reequip, although FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have done a good job referbing them recently it was an expensive task.

What form the new IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s will take will be dictated my the out come of the route electrification study due to report this year.

[Timmer]

Why do we actually need to build this? whats actually wrong with an HST^▸ (High Speed Train),that dictates total replacement? and would it not be easier to build MK5 coaches and new self propelled power cars that could either be reengineered for electric ,or be replaced with new electric power cars

Exactly, why can't they build a 21st century version of the HST for non electrified routes and an electric version with MK5 coaching stock?

Instead, millions has been spent by DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) and the companies bidding on IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) and we still don't know what they are planning. Thats of course if they have come up with something that the crazy specification required so much so that one of the bidders pulled out. Makes you wonder doesn't it 

Whatever they come up with nothing will ever beat the HST. They are best rolling stock going and even if you aren't too keen of the seating layout, First are to be applauded for the amount of work and money that was put into them to keep them going for another 10 or so years.

And yes, as thetrout says NO UNDERFLOOR ENGINES PLEASE! It's ruined long distance XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) travel.

[smokey]

The next build of long distance train SHOULD be of loco and coaches, with electric Power Car at 1 end ONLY and with Twin Diesel power cars, that can be coupled at the other end when required. Such as this, an East Coast Train from London KX is Electric Hauled to Edinburgh and whilst the Electric traction comes off at the front, Diesel power cars are connected at the Rear to push the train to Aberdeen.

For the return journey the reverse applies.

Use Twin Diesel Power Cars to keep Axle weight down but give the reliablity of twin diesels, if 1 engine shuts down the train can keep going.

Some Coaches will need Driving Cabs.

I don't understand the logic behind long distance Units like Voyagers, because Power units need about 10 times the maintenance of simple coaches.
 
So if you need 20 carriage Sets to run your service you need 24 Loco's to haul these trains about, but using units you need at least 26 FULL train sets and whilst 24 loco's might mean 48 engines to look after, an 8 car unit fleet means OVER 200 engines to look after.

[inspector_blakey]

And yes, as thetrout says NO UNDERFLOOR ENGINES PLEASE! It's ruined long distance XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) travel.

Well, the underfloor engines started the job of ruining travel on the XC network. Arriva it would appear may be more than capable of finishing it... 

[Btline]

Aren't all of your suggestions what the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) is?

The IEP's aim is to build a new InterCity train to replace the current IC125/IC225 (and presumably to add capacity to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))).

They are now deciding on which out of EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), DEMUs^▸ (Diesel Electric Multiple Unit), hybrid or loco. I think E loco - then you can have a DVT^‡(resolve) with bike and luggage space.

[thetrout]

Maybe they should create a carriage similar to the MK2 BSO^▸ (Brake Standard Open (carriage)) with the large storage space for bikes and luggage, similar to the BSO operating in the LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock) on Cardiff Central - Taunton. Also having a restaurant onboard would be ace

[willc]

Aren't all of your suggestions what the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) is?

The IEP's aim is to build a new InterCity train to replace the current IC125/IC225 (and presumably to add capacity to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))).

They are now deciding on which out of EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), DEMUs^▸ (Diesel Electric Multiple Unit), hybrid or loco. I think E loco - then you can have a DVT^‡(resolve) with bike and luggage space.

IEP may have started out as a simple new express train, but once DafT got going, it mushroomed into a multi-variant monstrosity. If one is to believe Modern Railways, they aren't deciding anything about it, as the Treasury took one look when the announcement of the preferred bidder was due in December and put the brakes on the whole thing. It may well be that when Adonis makes his imminent announcement on electrification that IEP will quietly be buried, having been overtaken by events - and a nice off-the-shelf, proven and reliable electric loco from Bombardier or Siemens.

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

Ideally Mark 5 coaches (preferably 9 or even 10 of them) + either Electric locomotive and DVT^‡(resolve) or electric power cars. The pendolinos seem far more rattley and unpleasant than the electric hauled mark III coaches. Diesel power cars will do for where it is unsuitable for the wiring to go up.

And while we're at it, 350 / 360 type things for inner / outer suburban thames stuff, and a nice load of 4 car 172's for wessex regional work.

[eightf48544]

As posted before Roger Ford has a complete debunking of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) in February's Modern Railways.

Whilst in the same issue Ian Walmsley has a brilliant case for the Mark 5 and  an electric loco (cut down continental 4 voltage 125 job) with diesel haulage for off the wires.

Which is exactly what the Southern did in 1967 for Weymouth, electric push to Bournemouth and a 33 to pull to Weymouth and vice versa on return. Admittedly they used a high powered 4 coach EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) with as a loco pushng 2* 4 TC^‡(resolve). Which meant the Bournmouth to Weymouth portion could be 4 or 8 depending demand.

[IndustryInsider]

As posted before Roger Ford has a complete debunking of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) in February's Modern Railways.

But then again, Nigel Harris' view has changed in his article in the latest Rail magazine following the positive electrification noises coming from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

[eightf48544]

Roger Ford is also sayinmg that even an all electric 125 IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)  fixed formation unit with distributed power is not the way to go and as for the hybrid carting round a dead weight diesel engine for most of the journey is not a good idea.

It seems that up to 125 (non tilt) possibly 140 as in Germany which requires LZB signalling, loco and coaches are the most efficient and flexible formation. Giving opportunities fro adding or subtracting coaches and through journey opportunities with a loco change.

Anglia used to have different length foramtions which they rostered for peak and off peak and they get to Great Yarmouth with a diesel loco.

As electrification spreads then the need for loco changes becomes less and the whole operation more efficient.

[broadgage]

We need the ICEP because the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) wont last forever, and also have inadeqaute capacity on many services.
As others suggest what we need is a long train of proper loco hauled coachs,with facing seats, tables, luggage space, and a restaurant/buffet, with diesel or electric locomotives/power cars being used as required.

What we will probably get is some variety of complicated diesel/electric hybrid multiple unit, shorter than existing trains and with high density bus seats and no catering or luggage space.