Photography on FGW/Network Rail property

[whole diary]

[plymothian]

As part of my BEd course I have to make a teaching resource and have decided to design something on the Life of IK Brunel (and maybe his father too) as a subsequence I would like some video footage of his railways. 

Wanting to cover my backside who would be the best person to obtain permission to film on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (and Network Rail) property? 

I can obviously get some footage from "public" property eg the Dawlish sea wall but would like to also include BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) and PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), it probably would be ok to do some filming and photography but don't want to come up against some pompous officialdom

[TerminalJunkie]

http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.html

[Tim]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) has guidelines for stills photography on its stations (it manages Paddington, most of the others will be managed by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) but the basic procedure-essentially tell someone official what you are doing and don't get in the way or do anything dangerous- would be the same on any station).  At bigger stations where they have a reception you may be asked to sign in.  At smaller stations ask the platform staff.  At unstaff stations just be sensible.  

So long as you are not trespassing, causing an obstruction or doing anything dangerous the next concern of Rail staff and the British Transport Police will be terrorism, so don't do anything suspecious in that regard (photographing CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) etc).  

Flash photography is a no-no, at least where there are trains about.
For video, I suspect that the rules are tighter, but I'll leave that to someone else to answer.  

[G.Uard]

Personally, I always try to assist genuine enthusiasts/photographers.  They are 'on your side' and another pair of eyes and ears.  It is a great shame that the general preoccupation with security restricts their activities.  As such, Tim's advice on notifying the relevant authority is bang on.


And---- BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) is not BTM but BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)

[Tim]

I've never understood the security arguements for restricting photographers.  Anywhere that is open to the public can easily be cased by terrorists.  If they need to know the layout of a station to plan their attack they can take photos serupticiously on a camera phone, or find them in a book or website or just memorise the layout and sketch a plan by hand.  Anything that a camera can record can also be recorded in the human memory. 

[inspector_blakey]

My impression is that it's not generally a problem, although to be on the safe side it's always worth asking the duty station manager nicely beforehand. I've never experienced one say no - the worst I got was at Swansea station a while back where I was told fine to take pictures but none of the staff (probably because there was a gaggle of uniformed FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) staff standing around smoking on the platform, in contravention of the smoking ban!).

I think as long as you have the DSM's permission you're covered should anyone challenge you. That said I don't think you're likely to encounter many problems from genuine railway staff, but agency security guards have been known to get overexcited about photography, threaten to confiscate cameras and fog film or delete pictures (none of which, incidentally, they have the authority to do: only a police officer can physically confiscate it and even then they need to have a very good reason).

And---- BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) is not BTM but BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)

You're definitely right in that the CRS code is BRI but I've heard lots of railway staff over the years refer to Temple Meads as BTM informally (I've even been given a piece of obsolete kit that had the owner's name and 'BTM' etched in it!)

[G.Uard]

The more obvious BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) isn't used to avoid confusion with Bournemouth IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly).

Re reading my post, it does appear pedantic.  Sorry, no slavish insistence intended.

[inspector_blakey]

That might explain it - although another possibility could be to avoid confusion with Bedminster (which is BMT) just down the road; Bomo CRS code is BMH.

Customer Relations got themselves in a twist a few months ago when issuing me with a free travel pass - they issued it to Cheltenham Spa (CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains)) instead of Carmarthen (CMN)! To their great credit though they corrected the mistake immediately I called them and sent me out the new ticket by special delivery. Still, not quite as drastic as the mistakes that travel agents have been known to make by using the three-letter IATA airport codes in error and booking people on flights to the wrong country!

[plymothian]

Cheers guys

I wasn't attempting to use CRS codes but I'll remember it for next time.

[inspector_blakey]

Sorry if you knew this already, but the main station that's in use at Temple Meads today isn't a Brunel building. It was built in the 1870s (often attributed to Matthew Digby-Wyatt although apparently there is no documentary evidence of his input - the drawing were signed by Francis Fox, the engineer of the Bristol and Exeter railway).

The original Brunel station still stands next door and houses the Empire and Commonwealth museum (now closed) as well as part of the long-stay car park, but is no longer in use by trains (nor is it likely to return to use as Bristol panel was built right across the entrance to the Brunel trainshed!)

[G.Uard]

Brunel was a genius, but even he couldn't have designed a train shed 12 years after he left for that great terminus in the sky.


BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) isn't just Brunel and Wyatt et al though.  In the 30s, five new platforms by PE Culverhouse were added to the east of the 1870s brick external wall at what is now Platform 5. The subway was constructed in the same era.

[moonrakerz]

Have done a lot of photography over the years and the basic law is (was ?) that you can take photographs of whoever and what ever you want on public property. BUT there are several recent Laws that are being "bent" to make almost anything a criminal offence.
Anything that is deemed to be of possible use to a terrorist could be a criminal offence. Taking a photo of the Tamar Bridge ? The VSOE^▸ (Venice Simplon Orient Express) passing though Warminster ?

There are quite a few well publicised examples of this - the poor man ejected from the Labour Party conference for heckling - people photographing policemen doing things they shouldn't, have had their cameras confiscated.

You may find this useful:

http://www.urban75.org/photos/photographers-rights-and-the-law.html

[Phil]

I love that Urban 75 site, and have done for several years.

There's so much unexpected, random, and yet singularly great railway related stuff on there - it's like stumbling across nuggets of gold in a totally, completely unexpected place... I mean, drugs, fighting, football and... rural branch lines?!

http://www.urban75.org/railway/index.html

[devon_metro]

There is a massive amount of material on the net regarding closed railway lines. Most interesting it is too, as are some of the London Underground examples. Nick Catford's website is a good place to start. Will post a link when on a more suitable Internet device.

[plymothian]

Just to let you know I did all my filming without any incident and no one even looked at me twice.
The power of a hi viz jacket!