Trains without retention tanks spray human effluent over railway trackside workers

[whole diary]

[super tm]

A few years ago Network Rail said they were going to start charging TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s extra for dealing with the problems of items flushed onto the track at terminal stations.  So FGW^▸ (First Great Western) started work on a system that would stop the flush working while the train was at a station.

Then the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) said that Network Rail were not allowed to charge extra so the development of the system was stopped.  I believe one set of coaches was modified for the prototype.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I wonder (but not seriously) if the "blue buttons" are linked to the central locking mechanism so you can't flush the loos when the doors are unlocked. Not sure how this would work in a station such as Theale or Thatcham when only a certain number of doors are opened.

What a thought provoking conversation for a Sunday morning!

[Chris from Nailsea]

It is indeed - so much so that I have just taken the opportunity to move and merge a couple of previous topics with this one, simply in the interests of continuity and ease of future reference! 

[Boppy]

When I look up at Paddington I smile.

When I look down at Paddington I grimace.

[Btline]

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2012/05/04/train-toilet-flushing-hits-brunel-bridge-workers/?

Train toilet flushing hits Brunel bridge workers

Workers repairing Brunel^s twin span bridge in Plymouth have called on train passengers to resist the call of nature as they pass over the historic structure.

Contract workers from scaffolding and painting specialists Taziker Industrial working below the bridge deck are having to dodge sudden toilet flush bursts onto the tracks.

Project manager Peter Cook said: ^We haven^t had a direct hit but there have been several near misses.

^Usually this would not be a problem, but the older trains are running on a wooden bridge deck, which doesn^t protect from toilet waste.^

First Great Western confirmed that some of its older rolling stock still dumped toilet waste on the tracks and it had asked passengers to refrain from using the toilets as they passed over the historic bridge.

One passenger told the Enquirer: ^The guard made a special announcement on the train^s tannoy as we came up to the Tamar River valley.

^I thought he was going to tell us we were about to pass over the iconic bridge, but instead he asked passengers to avoid using the toilets.^

^I suppose it^s a polite way of saying please mind the crap.^

TI won the ^10m job to restore the 1859 steel bridge between Devon and Cornwall last June.

In all, over 100t of new steelwork will be added, 205 original Brunel cross girders will be repaired, 40 diagonal bracings will be strengthened, and 1,800 individual steelwork repairs will be completed.

Up to 50,000 bolts have been purpose-designed to look like the existing rivets.

TI workers will also apply 35,000l of paint in four coats: a zinc primer, a strike coat all around the rivets and edges to build up the minimum thickness, a glass flake epoxy intermediate layer, and finally a Goose Grey polyurethane finish coat to match the original colour of the bridge.

The system is similar to that used on the Forth Bridge, but with a bit more elasticity because this bridge has more movement.

[Southern Stag]

First Great Western confirmed that some of its older rolling stock still dumped toilet waste on the tracks and it had asked passengers to refrain from using the toilets as they passed over the historic bridge.

By that they mean, all except one FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train in each direction over the bridge have toilets that flush directly on to the track. Only the sleeper, even then only in the berth carriages, and the four XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) voyagers a day in each direction do have retention tanks.

[woody]

RAIL passengers are being asked to resist the call of nature when travelling over the Brunel bridge ^ because workers are being showered with flushed waste.

First Great Western has said its train managers are issuing pleas to passengers to avoid flushing toilets when travelling over the historic twin-span Royal Albert Bridge.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Don-t-flush-plea-rail-passengers-save-bridge/story-16010229-detail/story.html

[vacmanfan]

Plymouth TM^‡(resolve) today made NO mention of this today, however the Penzance TM later on did. Made us aware of exactly what work was taking place too. 

Has anyone working on the bridge been splatted yet?
Also can anyone confirm if and when trains have to tank their waste by?

[paul7575]

Also can anyone confirm if and when trains have to tank their waste by?

No retrofitting requirement that I can find. 

A couple of RSSB^▸ (Rail Safety and Standards Board) reports that Google found simply note that all relevant rollng stock is expected to be out of service by 'about 2020'.

Paul

[bobm]

I boarded the 1207 Bristol Parkway to Swansea service this past Wednesday and because of the delay due to problems in the Severn Tunnel I managed to down two cans of Carlsberg before we'd actually set off. Consequently I needed to avail myself of the <ahem> facilities as we trundled to Filton Abbey Wood.

Noticed this sign in the toilet:



Is this a new thing or have I just not been observant in the past when micturating onboard HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)?

Noticed this yesterday while on an HST - I assume the experiment didn't work and it wasn't extended to other sets.

[Super Guard]

I think there are 2 sets with it installed on.  It's not linked to the CDL^▸ (Central Door Locking), I think it's linked to the speed of the train... Although there is an over-ride button to allow flushing at anytime in the TM^‡(resolve) office.

[JayMac]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Train companies must stop dumping human waste from toilets on railway tracks, a transport minister has said.

Lady Kramer branded the practice "utterly disgusting" and called on the industry to take action.

The RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) rail union is also demanding action, saying it is a potential health hazard for track workers.

The train companies said carriages without toilet tanks were being phased out and it was not an issue raised by passengers or workers.

Modern trains are fitted with toilet tanks, which are pumped out at the depot when they become full.

'Terrible'

But older rolling stock, which is still running on many of Britain's busiest routes, still discharges sewage directly on to the track.

Former Conservative minister Baroness Wilcox raised the issue as the House of Lords debated the 20th anniversary of rail privatisation.

"I am very sorry to see that still we have raw sewage going out on to the lines," she told peers.

"It is a terrible thing to see after all these years since November 5, 1993 that we should still be doing that."

She asked Lady Kramer: "Before we rush forward to HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), which I am looking forward to enormously, I would like to urge you to think about the men working on the lines and working in the stations who are having to deal with this excrement."

The Lib Dem minister replied: "The comments you make totally resonate. This is just utterly disgusting and I think it does speak to the fact that customer service has not always been at the centre of railways because customers I think are very concerned about this issue."

She said InterCity 125 trains would be replaced from 2017 by new models which would solve the problem.

'Protective clothing'

But she added: "It is a tougher issue on the local diesel trains which are gradually going out of service and we could indeed use some help from the industry in trying to tackle that problem."

The RMT rail union claims parts of the rail network, such as stretches of the the East Coast Mainline, are "like an open sewer" and it was a frequent source of complaints from workers.

RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said: "It really is a shocking indictment on the state of our railways 20 years after privatisation, and with hundreds of millions of pounds a year being creamed off in private profits, that raw sewage is still being dumped on the tracks up and down the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

"Not only is it a filthy way of disposing of effluent, but it also poses real health risks and dangers for RMT members out there working on the tracks.

"It should be stopped and the train companies should be the ones who pay the price for upgrading the trains and employing staff to empty the tanks."

The Rail Delivery Group, which represents the train companies and Network Rail, said the issue did not come up in a bi-annual national passenger survey and "it is not raised as an issue by staff".

A spokesperson said: "The majority of rail carriages that have toilets are fitted with tanks and the number of older carriages which are not will fall further in the next few years as new InterCity trains are introduced.

"The industry is always listening to customers and has spent millions of pounds on installing and improving passenger toilet facilities.

"Train companies and Network Rail also take their duty of care towards staff very seriously and ensure that depot and trackside teams are given the right training, equipment and protective clothing for their roles."

[Chris from Nailsea]

RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) General Secretary Bob Crow said: "It really is a shocking indictment on the state of our railways 20 years after privatisation, and with hundreds of millions of pounds a year being creamed off in private profits, that raw sewage is still being dumped on the tracks up and down the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

I think it's also a shocking indictment that in the twenty years before privatisation, when hundreds of millions of pounds were not being creamed off in private profits, that nothing was done then to stop raw sewage being dumped (if you'll pardon the expression) on the tracks ... 

[JayMac]

It would appear that we've had 20+ years of the 5h1t hitting the man. 

[Thatcham Crossing]

More importantly, what will the "cess" be called once there is no more "cess" being dumped?