FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[Busboy W1]

Surely Sat/Sun services through to the Cotswolds are going to be comfy shall we say in 1st. The 1st through service on a Sunday from GMV often sees 1st full at both ends if its a 166 before OXF^» (Oxford - next trains). Hopefully 1W47 the now famous 15:52 ex PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) will not be Turbotised after the 14th as 1st is most definitely full and that a 180. However I'm sure that there are some LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) services that will struggle also.

In regards to the Cotswold Line maybe the CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) should get involved now as First has been awarded the franchise until September 2015!

[NickB]

At the Meet the Manager session at Paddington on the 19th Sept I had a long conversation with two representatives about the myth and reality of 1st Class travel.

I pointed out FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s own marketing from its website which promises the following, and lives up to very little:

What we offer:
^a warm welcome on board - I don't think anyone has ever even said hello to me.
^reclining, spacious leather seats on board our High Speed services - seats are increasingly broken.  Today for example I tried 5 seats before I found one that would recline.
^quiet, relaxed atmosphere - not even in the Quiet Carriage can I find peace due to FGW's inability to enforce their own rules.
^tables at every seat, with power sockets for your laptop or mobile phone - Yep, I'll give them this.  They do have tables on HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s, but not on Turbos which increasingly replace HST's for my journeys
^room to work or relax - as above
^at-seat service from one of our Customer Hosts on many journeys* - nope.  I've made 300+ 1st class journeys this year and have seen 2 trolleys. 
^complimentary refreshments throughout your journey - as above, unless I want to queue. 
^a selection of products from our Express Caf^ that you can buy at your seat* - and again
^complimentary newspaper* - Throughout the summer the quantity of papers available appeared to be slashed resulting in no paper, or having to queue for 10mins at the buffet because they couldn't be bothered to put them out.
^access to First Class Lounges at London Paddington and Cardiff Central. - Whatever.

They were rather diappointed with my experience.  But not as much as I am.

I also pointed out that I was able to travel from Maidenhead to Par, both ways, in 1st Class, without anyone checking my ticket - including at either end.  The whole carriage looked like it had been declassified (which it hadn't) and yet no one could be bothered to ask for tickets.

[Jason]

Well that's curious - I've not been offered it before, and I've most definitely been travelling on Wednesdays. But good news!

I've been offered it twice. Last night I wasn't offered it though it was on the trolley. I forgot it was complimentary until the trolley had gone by.
Maybe it'll take a little more time to bed in.

[BBM]

The following Email is not going to please some First Class people.

"Please note that one of the early franchise changes will be declassification of one of the first class sections on a 166 turbo, so that like a 165 there will only be 1 compartment for first class. They are initially removing internal signs and later external signs."

"Progressively from 2nd October to 14th October 2013 one of the two First Class compartments in the three car Class 166 fleet will be de-classified and made available for the use of standard ticket holders. This will be a two stage process. Stage 1 will see internal de-classification with the locking open of the sliding door and removal of First Class stickers and antimacassars. A second stage delivered later twill remove external branding. The de-classification applies to a particular unit at the point it appears in service with stage 1 de-classification complete."

I noticed this morning that the First Class at the 'country' end of 166203 had received the internal declassification treatment, but the external '1' numeral had also been removed (with a 'shadow' left behind) although the yellow cantrail stripe was still in place.

[Busboy W1]

The Country end of 201 & 220 have been declassified internally only as of yesterday p.m. All the changes with the 1st class on the 166s is due to be completed by Oct 14th. Although I was under the impression they were due to depart for their C6 Refurb rather soon ?

[JayMac]

How long before the complaints come in from 1st Class Season ticket holders that they can no longer get a seat?

[paul7575]

How long before the complaints come in from 1st Class Season ticket holders that they can no longer get a seat?

They'll just have to be told their seat is not guaranteed then, just like any standard class seat... 

Paul

[Network SouthEast]

How long before the complaints come in from 1st Class Season ticket holders that they can no longer get a seat?

They were probably already complaining about not getting a seat in 1st class due to it being full of standard class travellers as a result of a lack of ticket checks.

[Network SouthEast]

They'll just have to be told their seat is not guaranteed then, just like any standard class seat... 

Paul

Indeed.

As far as I know, only Heathrow Express promise 1st class ticket holders a seat. If you travel on a Heathrow Express train with a 1st class ticket and can't get a seat in 1st, you'll get a refund OR a ticket for another journey (HEX condition of carriage 5.1).

[JayMac]

They'll just have to be told their seat is not guaranteed then, just like any standard class seat... 

Along with being told that, I suspect Customer Relations will be paying out the odd 'goodwill gesture'. Doesn't do to upset 1st Class Season holders. They can be quite vocal and/or may decide it's no longer worth paying for a 1st Class Season if they have to stand. That can have quite an impact on revenue.

[NickB]

The First Class 'guarantee' of a seat already only applies to HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s and not Turbos. 
As someone who can't decode the different carriage types described above, are HST provisions being reduced or only Turbo's?

As someone who pays the extra for First Class specifically and only to get a seat I can tell you that I would be cancelling my upgrade faster than you can rip out a buffet car.

[thetrout]

I think it comes under the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) for any TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) where if you have a First Class ticket and you have to sit in Standard Class because there is no room in First Class. You're entitled to claim the cost between the 1ST and STD Tickets.

I have successfully done this in the past with first off peak Paddington train from Taunton. One notable occasion I was eating my breakfast from the Travelling Chef stood at the buffet counter. That was the 2+6 set that was running around for a while, it was certainly rather cosy in First Class...

I regularly had to do this with CrossCountry Trains also back in my Taunton days... However that is just the tip of the iceberg and a conversation for a different thread on a different day


Nick to decode the difference:

• HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have the manual doors with handles on the outside (Where you need to drop the window to open the door from outside)
  
• Turbos are the 2 or 3 car units which have a First Class Compartment. (The carriage is technically known as a Driving Motor Composite Open with Lavatory or DMCoL for short)
  
• Adelante sets have a single First Class Carriage in Coach D with automatic doors.
  

Sorry if you already know this, but it's also a description for new comers... Even old hands can sometimes forget what runs around the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network... 

[paul7575]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) CofC actually refers to first class accomodation being unavailable:

38. Travelling in standard class accommodation with a first class ticket
If you have a first class ticket (or the equivalent) and the first class accommodation (or the equivalent) shown in the National Rail Timetable is not available in any train you travel in, you may claim a refund of the difference in price between the first class and the standard class ticket for the relevant part of your journey.

It may be that 'full and standing' is not the same as 'unavailable', however perhaps TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) treat it the same anyway...

Paul

[Busboy W1]

Just seen the 15:52 Ex Padd leave Oxf 6 late full and standing throughout and 1st looked busier than normal. The only thing about 180s is there is more standing room. Albeit hot and stinky but if this was to be Turbotised for any reason I'm sure people would be left behind.

[Southern Stag]

The First Class 'guarantee' of a seat already only applies to HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s and not Turbos. 
As someone who can't decode the different carriage types described above, are HST provisions being reduced or only Turbo's?

As someone who pays the extra for First Class specifically and only to get a seat I can tell you that I would be cancelling my upgrade faster than you can rip out a buffet car.

Only Turbos are having a small section of First Class removed for now but rumours suggest that HSTs will also have one carriage converted to Standard Class as part of the new franchise deal