FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[didcotdean]

Maybe there is less interest in preserving First Class by DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), now that civil servants don't in general travel First Class on official business. This was a long-standing hidden subsidy to the railways.

On journeys where first class advances are not sold, the cheapest first class fare can be well over double that of the equivalent in standard. A Didcot to London off peak day return for example is ^65 in 1st, compared with ^23.50 for standard, so not that much short of three times the price. This is the only 'discounted' 1st ticket available weekdays, with full fare being ^51.50 single.

[JayMac]

I would rather FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had looked at refurbishing and bringing back into service more spare Mk3 carriages, making as many HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets as possible 2+9, retaining at least 2 full 1st Class carriages.

What's stored, and its condition, I don't know fully, but the concept of converting former loco-hauled Mk3 stock and former HST buffets to FGW Standard Class Mk3s has been proved. It maybe the case though that the stock left is in much worse condition than those already converted.

I suspect though that with the franchise extension costs being largely borne by First Group they may baulk at such an idea. Had the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) underwritten some of the cost then it may have been a goer.

[John R]

I seem to recall that when the subject of 2+9 was previously considered it was discounted as rather a lot of infrastructure (maybe including the depots) would need upgrading, so it was prohibitively expensive. For journeys with relatively short distances between stops 2+9 would also lengthen journey times due to inferior acceleration.   

[Brucey]

Maybe there is less interest in preserving First Class by DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), now that civil servants don't in general travel First Class on official business. This was a long-standing hidden subsidy to the railways.

Now this is an interesting subject.

I recently had the need to travel on Virgin Trains.  The difference between First and Standard was a fiver.  The train was in the evening peak on a weekday, so it would offer the full dinner service plus alcoholic drinks, etc.

But as I'm employed in the public sector, I could only claim for a standard class ticket.  Plus dinner at a restaurant or pub, up to ^25 including a single beverage.  Even the cheapest meal and drink at 'Spoons would cost more than the ^5 upgrade.

As usual, I still went for a cheap meal and spent nowhere near ^25, but it still cost more than had I been able to claim for a first class ticket.

[thetrout]

I've often said that if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) reduced some of the First Class Off Peak Return Tickets, Introduced First Class Super Off Peak Single and Return Tickets and First Class Off Peak Single Tickets. Then they may very well end up filling more First Class Seats and vacating some Standard Class Seats.

Maybe also a similar policy to GreaterAnglia, where they charge ^10.00 for Off Peak Journeys to Upgrade to First Class on Return Tickets.

Taking the 15:55 Frome - London Paddington Train, Cheapest Walkup Standard Class Single is ^18.15 (Super Off Peak Single/SSS - Valid on selected times & trains via Newbury) and a First Class Walkup Single is ^79.85 (First Anytime Single/FOS - Valid any time & train via Newbury)

Now looking at the Super Off Peak Return (SSR) at ^32.00 and The First Off Peak Return (FSR^▸ (First Scot Rail)) at ^95.05

If FGW implemented a First Super Off Peak Return at ^64.00 (Double the SSR price) then FGW would actually make more money out of me, as at that price I would never bother with 1ST Advance Tickets to Paddington again. As that ticket is valid on all of the trains to London and back again I would use,

Now looking at the SVR at ^39.85 (Standard Off Peak Return) compared against the FSR. The difference between the 2 fares is ^55.20 which is more than Double the SVR?!! So why not make the FSR ^79.70? If I found myself needing to catch an Off Peak Train I would probably consider that on the day as an option. Or Purchase the hypothetical First Super Off Peak Return and excess the appropriate leg of the journey to the FSR price.

With regards to First Class only having a FOS on most long distance routes. The ^79.85 IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) is a total non starter. I wouldn't pay it. Instead I would pay ^40.00 odd on the day and go via Warminster/Salisbury. So again, if I didn't have a 1ST Advance. I wouldn't bother using FGW.

Why can FGW seem to charge ^79.85 on ALL trains from Frome - Paddington for First Class when they sell tickets for some trains for as little as ^18.15? Surely the available Standard Class Tickets should match the Available First Class ones?

Ah but then we come back down to the old chestnut of Common Sense and "The Manual"...

But as I'm employed in the public sector, I could only claim for a standard class ticket.  Plus dinner at a restaurant or pub, up to ^25 including a single beverage.  Even the cheapest meal and drink at 'Spoons would cost more than the ^5 upgrade.

As usual, I still went for a cheap meal and spent nowhere near ^25, but it still cost more than had I been able to claim for a first class ticket.

That's in interesting point. One of my clients has a similar policy of only allowing claims for Standard Class travel (unless you're at senior management level or the First Class Tickets are cheaper)

However I have an "arrangement" with my expenses, where I don't claim sustenance but claim for difference between First and Standard Class instead. If the difference between First and Standard is more than the sustenance level, then I absorb the additional cost after claim. If it's less then I claim the ticket amount and nothing else.

But that being said, I don't take the mick out of the expenses policy. It says you can claim for taxis, in the past 3 years I've used 5 Taxis and claimed for only 2. Many use Taxis because they can, despite cheaper and in some cases better alternatives being available. As I have a bus pass, I use it

[lordgoata]

The Country end of 201 & 220 have been declassified internally only as of yesterday p.m. All the changes with the 1st class on the 166s is due to be completed by Oct 14th. Although I was under the impression they were due to depart for their C6 Refurb rather soon ?

I assume I was on one of these this morning, as it was declassified - now with a sticker on the door asking for no mobile phones to be used in there. Needless to say someone walked straight in, on the phone! I thought I'd make the most of it, before everyone else realises its now no longer first class 

[The Tall Controller]

As said by others, I believe that off-peak (super off-peak) 1st class fares should be available to make it more appealing to 'pay-on-the-dayers'. Would help reduce overcrowding on important long distance trains and will give travelers an option should it be a busy service. In terms of my area it currently is set at:   

Super off-peak standard single from East Cornwall to London = ^56.50 (99.50 return)

Equivalent First class single from East Cornwall to London = ^199.50 (^264.00 return)

[Southern Stag]

The Country end of 201 & 220 have been declassified internally only as of yesterday p.m. All the changes with the 1st class on the 166s is due to be completed by Oct 14th. Although I was under the impression they were due to depart for their C6 Refurb rather soon ?

I assume I was on one of these this morning, as it was declassified - now with a sticker on the door asking for no mobile phones to be used in there. Needless to say someone walked straight in, on the phone! I thought I'd make the most of it, before everyone else realises its now no longer first class 

I'm pretty sure they've all been done internally now, but I'm yet to see one without the yellow cantrail strip yet, but some seem to have had the yellow 1 removed. Nobody seems to have realised it's no longer First Class, indeed yesterday two people sat opposite me were getting their excuses ready for when the TM^‡(resolve) came round for why they were in First Class with a Standard Class ticket.

[Boppy]

I travelled on one of the declassified ends on a 166 from Reading to Guildford this week.

On boarding the train it was packed and I walked all the way through to the front to find just one person sitting in the declassified section.  Just outside of it were people standing and sitting on the vestibule floor!  Looks like people are generally suspicious of it still being 1st class so avoiding using it.

[bobm]

Admittedly it is not quite the same as walking the length of an HST^▸ (High Speed Train), but is there going to any attempt to keep the remaining first class section at the "London" end of the train so people know where to stand on the platform for a 166?

[ChrisB]

Can't see that happening.....but who knows!

[Umberleigh]

An extra Standard carriage on Plym/Pnz services would be most welcome.

However, the single FC^‡(resolve) coach will surely have to be reconfigured to increase capacity, perhaps something along the lines of the Voyagers i.e. removal of tables to enable back to back seating?

[ChrisB]

There will only be an extra STD coach where there are 3 1st class coaches now - the sets with only 2 1st Class coaches will have half a coach declassified to STD. So there'll be a minimum of 1.5 1st class coaches - and those with a full buffet will have two.

[bobm]

Having spoken face to face with a senior member of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Management his words were "I think I can promise we will have sufficient sets to run the existing Pullman service".  He also hinted expansion onto the South Wales route is being looked at.

[ChrisB]

I was told that was confidential.....