FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

Having asked a few staff, I'm getting a very consistent view that there will be no quiet carriage in first going forward. As someone who always sits in the QC (as do several other regular travellers) I think it's a poor show that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can't be bothered to even give those of us seeking a bit of piece and quiet half a carriage.

Also today, the configuration of the 0700 BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) had the buffet divorced from first class as the carriage had been turned around. I don't know whether it was a coincidence but there was no first class trolley service, despite there being a second member of catering crew on board. This evening's TM^‡(resolve) mentioned that turning the smaller buffets round is part of the reconfiguration. I can't work out why that would be necessary.

I can't see why that's necessary either and I don't think that is the case.  I was led to believe that some buffet cars are the wrong way round as this is how they were offloaded from the low loaders.  The depot then inserted the buffet into the set the wrong way round simply to prevent the set going out short formed.  There was no time to turn it back.

All vehicles are kept the same way round to ensure train and isolation equipment is on all the same side.  (both sides of a vehicle are not identical in terms of access points and isolation equipment) this help with ease of maintenance.  With everything on the same side its obviously quicker than having to run round the train with tools and equipment to service just one coach. 

[johoare]

Coach H on the 7.08 Maidenhead to Paddington was the wrong way around last Tuesday.. It was very disconcerting at that time of the morning for me..

[a-driver]

They are slowly being turned back the right way as and when time allows.  You're looking at the best part of 2 hours worth of work to turn a coach!

[chrisr_75]

When it comes to checking tickets its very hard to do so between Oxford and Hereford due to the short platforms at many of the stations.   The short platforms require the TM^‡(resolve) to be at a specific location in the train to operate SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) and release the doors.
If they try to do a ticket check they often find themselves in the wrong location, its around about 10 minute run between stations, and end up fighting there way back through the train which in turn causes delays.  Also, if a passenger pays by debit or credit card and there is an issue with the card the TM can not walk away with the customers card to release the doors.
Services between Oxford and Hereford really need an extra member of staff on board who's sole duty is ticket checks.

Agreed, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) simply need to employ sufficient revenue protection staff across the network in order to properly protect both their revenue and more importantly to prevent the other fare paying passengers subsidising those who choose to engage in fare evasion

[chrisr_75]

Having asked a few staff, I'm getting a very consistent view that there will be no quiet carriage in first going forward. As someone who always sits in the QC (as do several other regular travellers) I think it's a poor show that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can't be bothered to even give those of us seeking a bit of piece and quiet half a carriage.

I think it is about time that FGW are clear about what their proposed first class offering will be post refresh. There are many regular travellers from S.Wales to London and return in first and also quite a number of those who choose the quiet carriage, so it is only right that they are transparent about what can be expected in future rather than, for example, just having the booking engine stating that the quiet carriage cannot be reserved.

[a-driver]

Personally I think removing a First Class carriage is a bad idea, there should have been at least a trial before they committed to anything to gain reaction.  Its worth noting, that during off-peak periods, First Class is well used on some routes.

Ideally, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) should have investigated the possibility of compensating HEx in return for them giving up at least one of its train paths during the peak.  I think the current service level of every 15 minutes to Heathrow is absurd given the overcrowding on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) out of Paddington, from what I've seen they seldom run at full capacity.
That path should then be allocated to FGW running an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) of some formation, ie all standard class, or something along those lines between Padd and Reading.  That is potentially a significant increase in seats whilst keeping the current First Class provision.

[ChrisB]

|Errrr....FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't have any spare HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) lying around that don't need to be used in the peaks....so whatever trip you are suggesting, it couldn't go very far....

[paul7575]

... This evening's TM^‡(resolve) mentioned that turning the smaller buffets round is part of the reconfiguration. I can't work out why that would be necessary.

Perhaps the coach with the small buffet in it becomes the composite coach, which will be half first?   Whichever way round and wherever they put the small buffet it can no longer form the boundary between first and standard in the relevant trains?

Paul

[Richard Fairhurst]

Services between Oxford and Hereford really need an extra member of staff on board who's sole duty is ticket checks.

And indeed the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) always used to have one. They were made redundant shortly after GWT became FGW^▸ (First Great Western) - I remember one of them (Michael?) reappearing as platform staff at Foregate Street.

[NickB]

Did anyone ever consider disposing of the buffet cars on HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s completely, and gaining half a carriage that way?

Yes, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) lose revenue from the buffet but does that exceed the loss of a full carriage of First Class passengers?
You could still have a trolley with hot drinks if you wanted to for long journeys.

Guess its too late now.

[ChrisB]

Personally I think removing a First Class carriage is a bad idea, there should have been at least a trial before they committed to anything to gain reaction.  Its worth noting, that during off-peak periods, First Class is well used on some routes.

But how many of those are on Advances? The removal of those would thus cure the problem, as Advances are used to fill empty seats, and there won't be any, according to you going forward.

Ideally, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) should have investigated the possibility of compensating HEx in return for them giving up at least one of its train paths during the peak.  I think the current service level of every 15 minutes to Heathrow is absurd given the overcrowding on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) out of Paddington, from what I've seen they seldom run at full capacity.

The times I've been on them, there are fewer empty seats than on the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) in the off-peak....HEx won't give up the paths they have....[/quote]

[a-driver]

|Errrr....FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't have any spare HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) lying around that don't need to be used in the peaks....so whatever trip you are suggesting, it couldn't go very far....

To be honest, I didn't look at the figures before suggesting that!!  I think FGW has in the region of 117 power cars and 53? sets.  If that's correct, its not totally impossible but would depend on how many trailer vehicles they have spare or that are currently off lease and could be bought back into use once the current refresh program has finished.

The times I've been on them, there are fewer empty seats than on the HSTs in the off-peak....HEx won't give up the paths they have....

BAA funded the building of the Heathrow link.  As a result the then Railtrack guaranteed them paths into London Paddington up until a certain date, 2020 or something like that.  After that, I presume those paths will be up for grabs.

[chrisr_75]

But how many of those are on Advances? The removal of those would thus cure the problem, as Advances are used to fill empty seats, and there won't be any, according to you going forward.

I wonder how many people actually travel with anytime first tickets? The price of anytime first is, in my eyes, a complete insult when the level of service offered on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is given consideration!

[TaplowGreen]

But how many of those are on Advances? The removal of those would thus cure the problem, as Advances are used to fill empty seats, and there won't be any, according to you going forward.

I wonder how many people actually travel with anytime first tickets? The price of anytime first is, in my eyes, a complete insult when the level of service offered on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is given consideration!

I suspect very few use Anytime First, and very few of those will be paying their own fare......one thing which should be stopped immediately if First class accomodation is being reduced is present/former railway staff using their free/almost free travel privileges to sit in First class - that will free up more space for paying customers.

[paul7575]

Did anyone ever consider disposing of the buffet cars on HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s completely, and gaining half a carriage that way?

They certainly did.   Here's how the decision not to go ahead with complete removal was being discussed back in 2008.  http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3163.0 

(IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the plan then was to have been trolleys only.)

Paul