FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

Having just booked seats in First Class on both East Midlands Trains an XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), I am disappointed not to be able to choose forward or reverse facing (something which has not been possible for several years) but I was faced with 'Window' 'Window View' (whatever that means) and 'Aisle'.  On XC I have ended up with Aisle anyway and will be even more annoyed if I am made to face the rear of the train having forked out for the First Class.

I'm posting this here, because the layouts indicated above suggest ranks of single seats facing in one direction - in itself not a problem - but I hope FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will maintain the customer-friendly practice of allowing choice of which way the seat faces. It makes a difference to me as I suffer travel sickness at high speed when not facing the destination.

XC presumable don't do it because of the number of reversals at Birmingham.  You did not say where you are going, but with Derby to Reading there is always a reversal at Birmingham, with Derby to Bristol there is mostly a reversal at Birmingham depending on the route taken between Kings Norton and New Street.  So you might have a forward facing seat for only part of the journey.  Also the changes mean that XC are not always the same way round, like the FGW HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s. It depends on the journey they have done before. It is just too difficult to work out which way round the train would be even if there was not a reversal during the journey.

[trainer]

Thanks ellendune.  I know why XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) say they do (don't) do it, but FGW^▸ (First Great Western) also reverse at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) on the Cardiff-Portsmouth service and still offer an option which can be worked out as the direction depends on where the train starts. Just to complete the picture I wanted to go from Bristol to Leeds which has no reversal normally.

I accept that I am probably in a small, uncommercially significant minority.

[ellendune]

Thanks ellendune.  I know why XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) say they do (don't) do it, but FGW^▸ (First Great Western) also reverse at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) on the Cardiff-Portsmouth service and still offer an option which can be worked out as the direction depends on where the train starts. Just to complete the picture I wanted to go from Bristol to Leeds which has no reversal normally.

I accept that I am probably in a small, uncommercially significant minority.

Bristol Leeds does sometimes reverse if the train takes the Camp Hill route between New Street and Kings Norton.  This maintains route knowledge so that XC trains can bypass New Street in the event of a problem.  It also avoids delays due to stopping services via the University.  It is this irregularity that leads to the problem.  The Portsmouth Cardiff trains always reverse at Bristol. 

[Southern Stag]

The biggest problem is that even if a service doesn't reverse en route, because of the nature of the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) network the service could turn up with the First Class carriage at either end of the train and therefore internally either way round. Unlike FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) which have both xF and xB seats in First Class XC have individually numbered seats and in First Class on Voyagers there is a significant bias towards seats facing in one direction. (Back to travel in leading, facing to travel if trailing.) There is no way for XC to accurately offer Forwards or Back seats.

[Timmer]

I accept that I am probably in a small, uncommercially significant minority.

I can't travel in reverse direction of travel without feeling a bit queasy are a while so you aren't alone. One of the reasons why I go via London when heading North rather than using XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).

[bobm]

I accept that I am probably in a small, uncommercially significant minority.

I can't travel in reverse direction of travel without feeling a bit queasy are a while so you aren't alone. One of the reasons why I go via London when heading North rather than using XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).

I have no idea on figures clearly, but I travel with several people who prefer to sit facing and for them it is an important consideration when making the journey.  Thankfully I can sit facing in either direction and in someways I quite like sitting with my back in the direction of travel so I can see items of interest as they disappear in the distance.

Our varied preferences do cause some amusement at places like Gloucester where our group of four all get up and play musical chairs before the train reverses!

[Rhydgaled]

Pretty sure ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) offer direction on their reservations, despite nearly all their long-distance routes including at least one reversal. When I had my first class breakfast trip from Chester to Cardiff though my reservation was in a backwards-facing seat, despite me asking for forward-facing. I guess the system didn't account for the reversal at Chester.

I accept that I am probably in a small, uncommercially significant minority.

I can't travel in reverse direction of travel without feeling a bit queasy are a while so you aren't alone. One of the reasons why I go via London when heading North rather than using XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).

I have no idea on figures clearly, but I travel with several people who prefer to sit facing and for them it is an important consideration when making the journey.  Thankfully I can sit facing in either direction and in someways I quite like sitting with my back in the direction of travel so I can see items of interest as they disappear in the distance.

Our varied preferences do cause some amusement at places like Gloucester where our group of four all get up and play musical chairs before the train reverses!

I play 'musical chairs' at both Carmarthen and Swansea on occassion, to keep facing forwards. When I am forced to travel backwards, I don't feel unwell it just feels odd.

[didcotdean]

I always travel backwards (and you'd know why if you've had the misfortune to be in a high speed crash). However, I appreciate others with motion sickness can't comfortably do this - my mother for one.

[thetrout]

I've seen a 'mockup' document of what First Class will [or should] look like come the changes. I was given the opportunity to see it as a Staff Member knows I use First Class often and thought I would be interested. I had to rush to catch a train so didn't get to see the whole document, But as a summary this is what it contained:

HST^▸ (High Speed Train) Formation for Micro Buffet:

43 - TGS - TS - TSD - TS - TS - TSMB - TC^‡(resolve) - TF - 43

HST Formation for Full Size Buffet:

43 - TGS - TS - TSD - TS - TS - TS - TFRB - TF - 43

• 43 = Power Car (The Locomotive)
• TGS = Trailer Guard Standard Class (Coach A with Train Managers Office and Bicycle Loading)
• TSD = Trailer Standard Class Disabled (Coach C with Disabled Wheelchair Spaces and Accessible Toilet)
• TSMB = Trailer Standard Class with Micro Buffet
• TFRB = Trailer First Class with Buffet & Kicthen
• TC = Trailer Composite (Mix of First and Standard Class)
• TF = Trailer First Class

On the Micro Buffet sets. There will be half a carriage of Standard Class between the Buffet and First Class.

In First Class itself:

• A selection of Individual Airline Seats with fixed Table.
• Glass Privacy Screen between tables for 4 Seats; Extending to cover just the seats closest to the window. Slightly pointless IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) but does make it look somewhat smart
• Seats have 'pointy ears' headrests which I believe would be to allow you to rest your head against if you wanted to dose
• Refresh of toilets in First Class (Practically no difference to the current layout and continued use of those awful rotating towels to dry your hands)
• New seating colour
• New Curtains at the windows
• POSSIBLE realignment of Power Sockets - The document was Black and White so difficult to ascertain
• POSSIBLE reinstatement of Toilet at the end of Coach H (Currently a Trolley Store Room and Water Boiler) - Document implied it was Coach H as the carriage interchange doors were closed, suggesting it to be behind the power car

All in all it does look quite a smart little layout. My only gripes is that it doesn't make clear if there will be a Wheelchair Space in First Class or a Disabled Toilet either.

I'm also wondering why the chose to put the Micro Buffet next to the TC. Why not make the Micro Buffet a TCMB (Trailer Composite Micro Buffet) as this would allow another full Standard Class carriage?!?! Ok you wouldn't get too much Standard Class seating in a TCMB but it would be at the provision of a further full Standard Class carriage (Possibly made from the conversion of a TF to a TS)

It almost certainly looks like there will be no Quiet Carriage either. I'll try and get another nose at the document next time I'm at the station that allowed me to see it

Edit: Having only just spotted broadgage' post below which he pointed out there were 2+9 Carriages in one of the formations. I have edited this accordingly as this was not correct. Both Micro Buffet or Full Buffet sets should be 2+8

[thetrout]

I always travel backwards (and you'd know why if you've had the misfortune to be in a high speed crash). However, I appreciate others with motion sickness can't comfortably do this - my mother for one.

Agreed. I prefer to travel backwards if I can

As a side discussion I always feel nervous about using a bathroom onboard a moving Coach (i.e. National Express, Berrys Superfast, Megabus, First Greyhound etc) if the toilet faces the direction of travel. There are a select few coaches that have the toilet so you're backwards or side on to the direction of travel... If anyone has used a coach toilet facing the direction of travel; and had the experience where the coach has had to brake violently will understand my concerns...!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Agreed. I prefer to travel backwards if I can

You're just determined to be awkward, young trout! 

I've seen a 'mockup' document of what First Class will [or should] look like come the changes. I was given the opportunity to see it as a Staff Member knows I use First Class often and thought I would be interested. I had to rush to catch a train so didn't get to see the whole document, But as a summary this is what it contained ...

Many thanks for posting such a comprehensive summary, and from such a brief glimpse, thetrout! 

My only concern, though, is over this:

Seats have 'pointy ears' headrests which I believe would be to allow you to rest your head against if you wanted to dose

I'd advise against the administering of any substances on board a train - it's clearly not right. 

[thetrout]

You're just determined to be awkward, young trout! 

I couldn't possibly comment...

Many thanks for posting such a comprehensive summary, and from such a brief glimpse, thetrout! 

This is the downside to a Photographic Memory...

I'd advise against the administering of any substances on board a train - it's clearly not right. 

I disagree... What is the point in getting a complimentary coffee from the Buffet if you can't drink it...? Just to look at it so it can sit there all smug on the table mocking you?!

Although if you look on the keyboard where the 'S' key is in proximity to the 'Z' key... You might understand how tiredness due to lack of caffeine may cause that unfortunate typo

It's raining outside... I'll get my coat I think... pobodys nerfect!

[broadgage]

The first formation listed by the famous Trout would seem to be 2+9 , I thought the intention was to keep the same total number of vehicles, but downgrade first class provision.

[Rhydgaled]

As a side discussion I always feel nervous about using a bathroom onboard a moving Coach (i.e. National Express, Berrys Superfast, Megabus, First Greyhound etc) if the toilet faces the direction of travel.

Having seldom traveled by coach (never comfortably, normally too little legroom and once as a 'stowaway' on the steps outside the toilet on a rail-replacement bus) I cannot see how one can use a toilet at all onboard a moving coach. In my experience, coaches have seat belts and (unlike buses) do not allow standing passengers. The latter is evidenced by lack of grab rails for standees to hold onto and I think once or twice I've noticed a sign giving a number of seated passengers and "nil standees". Given that the law says seat belts, if fitted, must be fastened while the vehicle is moving, just how is one supposed to make it to and from the toilet? And without grab-rails, how many have fallen down the steps?

[Btline]

So if there are some individual seats, how many First Class seats are FGW^▸ (First Great Western) losing per set?
It can't be that many now, which makes me feel a little better about the changes (but still against overall).