FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Funny that II, I make most of my journeys on the 180s these days and I have only ever seen a trolley being removed from the train after arrival at Oxford from Paddington, I have never seen a trolley west of Oxford (even when there is room to wheel it down the train).

That's surprising.  Most of the 180s down to Worcester and Great Malvern have a trolley service throughout (and have had pretty much since their re-introduction), and though sometimes there is a change of staff/trolley at Oxford, it's more often a case of the existing trolley being topped up with stock at Oxford.

[charles_uk]

Funny that II, I make most of my journeys on the 180s these days and I have only ever seen a trolley being removed from the train after arrival at Oxford from Paddington, I have never seen a trolley west of Oxford (even when there is room to wheel it down the train).

That's surprising.  Most of the 180s down to Worcester and Great Malvern have a trolley service throughout (and have had pretty much since their re-introduction), and though sometimes there is a change of staff/trolley at Oxford, it's more often a case of the existing trolley being topped up with stock at Oxford.

Until this week, the trolley was always removed from the 1552 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains):WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) at Oxford (and often the ramp wasn't ready which didn't help with the numbers waiting to get on). This week the trolley has remained on - albeit stationary in 1st class - and, instead, there has simply been what looks like additional water put on board at Oxford.

[eightf48544]

Think it's the right place.

ian Walmsley has an interesting article in june's Modern railways comparing the First Class offerings of various TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company). Makes an interesting comaprison with a Cunard Cruise at ^3.47 per hour and Virgin from Manchester London at ^191.93 per hour 

Now for my query is Pendelino First worth an Extra ^29.50 over Standard for Stockport via London to Taplow. (^46 - 16.50)

Vigin via Reading give a ridiculous fare of ^204 for First on a Vomiter ^26 standard. I'm not sure i even want to do Stockport to Reading in Standard on a Vomiter!

Hoping to go To Huddersfield via GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) to Halifax (OK some track bashing but an advance from KX is only ^14.XX) Is it worth  looking at 180 first as standard is not bad apart from underfloor engine.

[JayMac]

It won't be Virgin to Reading from Stockport. That's Arriva CrossCountry.

I'd suggest any further queries regarding fares and routes you'd like to take should be made in a new topic on the Fare's Fair board. Don't forget date, time, number travelling and whether any Railcards are held. 

[NickB]

And the quiet carriage stickers have been removed as well.

Not across the board so far, there's still plenty floating around this morning with quiet carriage stickers...

Also a coach M on those sets that have a full size buffet - with the old coach F being the new K. I expect M is temporary and will be removed as the conversions are completed

I can happily report that Coach L on the 7.08 Maidenhead-->Padd (5am ish from Worcester) was defined as a Quiet Carriage.  After two weeks of 'noisy' Coach L this was nice.

[chrisr_75]

And the quiet carriage stickers have been removed as well.

Not across the board so far, there's still plenty floating around this morning with quiet carriage stickers...

Also a coach M on those sets that have a full size buffet - with the old coach F being the new K. I expect M is temporary and will be removed as the conversions are completed

I can happily report that Coach L on the 7.08 Maidenhead-->Padd (5am ish from Worcester) was defined as a Quiet Carriage.  After two weeks of 'noisy' Coach L this was nice.

Don't get too used to it! Travelling yesterday morning, the only quiet carriage announcement was made for coach A in standard. The quiet coach stickers seem to now be disappearing rapidly from first class.

[NickB]

But why on earth would they do this?!?!   It is just stupid.

[chrisr_75]

But why on earth would they do this?!?!   It is just stupid.

Indeed it is! I have abandoned first class for the time being, yesterday morning the standard class quiet carriage was actually rather more peaceful than it's former first class counterpart. They seem intent on driving as many people out of first as possible...

[broadgage]

I suspect that now MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) can not use first at the public expense, that pressure to remove it entirely will grow.
Wont happen overnight of course of course, but a little at a time.
The next logical step on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will be to reduce first class from a one and a half coaches to just one.
"people find it confusing to have first and standard in the same coach"
"first complain that the half coach was regularly invaded by standard"

Followed by the abolition of any catering beyond a trolley.

[TaplowGreen]

........looks to me like the law of unintended consequences is having a major effect on what was on the face of it an honest attempt to improve capacity - 1st class customers across the piece are going to suffer and the "premium" service being paid for is being degraded in a number of ways.....perhaps a consequence of taking the easy option?

[IndustryInsider]

Possibly worth waiting until the conversion work is complete, before you all decide it was a terrible mistake.  In the meantime, there's bound to be a little disruption to the provision of first class whilst vehicles go in for refurbishment, as there was when the original refresh took place towards the end of the last decade.  As for taking the 'easy option', surely that would have been to do nothing and watch standard class crowding get worse and worse (with half empty first class carriages on the vast majority of trains) until the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s arrive?

Personally, I look forward to seeing the new First Class layout (and will comment good or bad then, not now) hoping it to be an improvement on the current service with free wi-fi long overdue!

[broadgage]

IMO^▸ (in my opinion), the reduction in first class IS a mistake, and I DO feel able to judge this without waiting for the work to be complete.
No matter how wonderfull the conversion work may be, it is still a substantial reduction in first class capacity which is often well filled on rush hour services.

It seems to me that the Reading commuters are the main problem, with many choosing to stand on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) rather than sit on a slower service, and then complaining about "having to stand"
It would appear that the answer is to provide a couple of special services that serve ONLY Reading, and to stop fewer long distance trains at Reading. Platform capacity at Reading should not be a problem with the recent improvements.

[ChrisB]

I don't think I've *ever* seen *every* seat filled in 1st class, sorry....

[chrisr_75]

IMO^▸ (in my opinion), the reduction in first class IS a mistake, and I DO feel able to judge this without waiting for the work to be complete.
No matter how wonderfull the conversion work may be, it is still a substantial reduction in first class capacity which is often well filled on rush hour services.

It seems to me that the Reading commuters are the main problem, with many choosing to stand on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) rather than sit on a slower service, and then complaining about "having to stand"
It would appear that the answer is to provide a couple of special services that serve ONLY Reading, and to stop fewer long distance trains at Reading. Platform capacity at Reading should not be a problem with the recent improvements.

I would fully agree that Reading is a major problem for long distance services. During the improvement works at Reading the 19.15 (iirc) to Swansea was non-stopping Reading, first stop Swindon. Whilst still busy, it was acceptably so and not the usual crush loading found at that time of day. Incidentally FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were planning a 19.12 departure for Swansea, first stop BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), had trains, staff, paths etc available but DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) vetoed it according to a FGW train manager I spoke to.

The reduction in first capacity in my humble opinion will not really address any capacity issues. Notably this change appears to have been imposed having had no consultation with paying customers or the taxpayer who has largely funded the forthcoming conversion.

[chrisr_75]

I don't think I've *ever* seen *every* seat filled in 1st class, sorry....

I have a few times, especially at weekends, but isn't that the whole point? Pay more = get more space?! They would've done better making more cheap advance fares available and promoting them properly - the only cost involved then would be a small change to the booking systems and a bit of targeted marketing rather than spending millions polishing 40 year old tu...er, trains only for them to be scrapped as IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) comes along in a few years.