FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[John R]

This topic appears to have strayed somewhat from the title. I'm currently sitting on a 1 1/2 first only set heading west out of SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) and there is loads of room. Though may not have been the case when leaving Paddington of course.

[Southern Stag]

Like all these things - it is all or nothing. The train's origin may be helpful for a train at Reading, Swindon or Chippenham for example - but not so useful when standing at St Erth and waiting for an eastbound train to be told "This is the train from Penzance".

St Erth is actually one of a handful of stations which doesn't tell you the origin of the service. I don't think this is actually deliberate but just one of the many quirks of the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) system. Bodmin Parkway is another which doesn't.

[chrisr_75]

This topic appears to have strayed somewhat from the title. I'm currently sitting on a 1 1/2 first only set heading west out of SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) and there is loads of room. Though may not have been the case when leaving Paddington of course.

I also noticed this morning that the 7.58 ex-Swansea was much lighter loaded in first than was common prior to the meddling with advance ticket allocations and prices. Judging by my own anecdotal evidence of some of the former regulars in first from my local station, including myself, these "improvements" have convinced a significant number of people that first class not worth the extra now and some of these folk are are now taking up capacity in standard, thus partly nullifying the "extra" standard capacity. Well thought out DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) & FGW^▸ (First Great Western)!

[IndustryInsider]

I'm sure some will decide that 1st is no longer worth it, but 'partly' is the key word in your post.  A handful of seats taken by former 1st class passengers but a whole carriage (in many cases) of extra standard class seats.

[Southern Stag]

And even if a whole First Class carriage worth of people were to move to Standard Class you'd still have extra seats available because a Standard Class carriage has lots more seats that a First Class one.

[Umberleigh]

I'm sure some will decide that 1st is no longer worth it, but 'partly' is the key word in your post.  A handful of seats taken by former 1st class passengers but a whole carriage (in many cases) of extra standard class seats.

There are other ways to travel. It's quite possible that many former 1st passengers will fly, drive or drive to a station much closer to London. Certainly this one no longer sees the train as the default option.

[chrisr_75]

And even if a whole First Class carriage worth of people were to move to Standard Class you'd still have extra seats available because a Standard Class carriage has lots more seats that a First Class one.

Yes, but the difference in the number of seats is around 40 ish. However, if you left first class as it was in terms of seat numbers, but encourage more people into it from standard using cheap advance fares (which effectively costs nothing to implement), then you potentially free a similar number of seats in standard without the cost of the conversion...

[ChrisB]

You'll get more for selling 40ish seats in Standard than you will selling 15+ 1st class cheap

[chrisr_75]

I'm sure some will decide that 1st is no longer worth it, but 'partly' is the key word in your post.  A handful of seats taken by former 1st class passengers but a whole carriage (in many cases) of extra standard class seats.

There are other ways to travel. It's quite possible that many former 1st passengers will fly, drive or drive to a station much closer to London. Certainly this one no longer sees the train as the default option.

Same here, even accounting for some traffic delays the m4 is significantly quicker door to door for me and now they have withdrawn a lot of advance fares in standard & first very much cheaper...

[chrisr_75]

You'll get more for selling 40ish seats in Standard than you will selling 15+ 1st class cheap

Depends on what you're comparing. My journey in standard now costs more than it did in first for the previous 2 years from when I started the commute. I'm sure had they offered the cheapest advance first class fares equal to or only slightly more than a standard fare, then first would've seen very much higher occupancy and we'd perhaps not now be discussing these changes!

[ChrisB]

But there are 25 more (ish) Standard seats - therefore the "little bit more than Standard" is surely eaten up by selling these additional seats?

[Rhydgaled]

Where are these 5car (bi-modes) going to come from? All those on order are already spoken for...

...and then some. There's alot of talk about running 10-car trains formed of 2 5-car bi-modes coupled. Personally, I can't see there being enough units to double up many services given that they plan to double the frequency of PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-Bristol and use IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) on an hourly semi-fast PAD-Westbury service.

10car (bi-modes only, don't forget - so on routes for that stock) are likely only in the peaks. Otherwise it's 9car electrics. Off-peak, it'll be 5car bi-modes, I'm sure. But double the frequency, you can halve the length of the train to get the same number of seats....so a 5car as 1 of the extra Bristol's (the one going to W-s-M) should be fine off-peak. And possibly peak too, as there are 3 other trains an hour.

(I wish people woukd read the consultation as its very clear in there what stock will be used on which services)

For those who haven't read the consultation (which I haven't yet done so in full), the route diagram it contains shows the following off-peak service pattern out of Paddington:

• 2tph to Bristol via Bath (9-car 'electric' IEP)
• 1tph to Weston Super Mare via Bristol Parkway (5-car bi-mode)
• 1tph to Bristol via Bristol Parkway (mix of 5-car bi-mode and 9-car 'electric' IEP)
• 1tph to Plymouth (with extensions to Penzance) (IC125)
• 1tph to Westbury (with extensions to Exeter and Paignton) (5-car bi-mode)
• 1tph to Cardiff (mix of 5-car bi-mode and 9-car 'electric' IEP)
• 1tph to Swansea (mix of 5-car bi-mode and 9-car 'electric' IEP)
• 1tph to Cheltenham Spa (5-car bi-mode)
• 1tph to Worcester (with extensions to Hereford every 2hrs) (5-car bi-mode)
• 1tph to Oxford (EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), not IEP)

Note that the ONLY IEP route which will NEVER see 5-car units is PAD-Bristol via Bath. All the other routes (including South Wales, which won't have an enhanced frequency) are expected to have 5-car bi-modes diagramed on some workings.

I believe there are currently 49 IC125 diagrams + 4 180s (total 53), versus 18 9-car and 32 5-car + 14 retained IC125s (total 64) post-IEP. That's 11 diagrams more than now, BUT the additional Bristol Parkway services will require an extra 4, leaving 7. Worked out a different way, the services to be worked by IEPs of one form or annother ammount to 43 diagrams, which also gives me 7 diagrams left over. Those 7 leftover diagramed IEP units are all that is left to lengthen any of the 5-car services to 10-car. If the Worcester services are to be 10-car as far as Oxford, as some have suggested, that's three units off the 7. If the PAD-Oxford service listed as an EMU above is actually to be IEP worked that's another three units. So, if either of these are true, you have four units left to strengthen services on the Cotswolds, Cheltenahm, S.Wales or Bristol via Parkway routes. I don't think those 4 leftover units will be enough to ensure everything that needs to be longer than 5 coaches is longer than five coaches.

[ChrisB]

I think those three units to run Worcester's in the peaks will actually run (at least two of them) all the way through, at least that's the current feedback I'm getting.

Actually, I think you're pretty much there, with the 4 left-over under Hitachi's wing at any time being maintained. Remember, the agreement with Hitachi is meant to be watertight, in that whatever is agreed to be out will be out, but there's no call on the ones being maintained.

[thetrout]

Out of all the trains I used to book cheap First Class Advance Tickets on I can only find one or two where Cheap 1ST Advance tickets are still available and 1 new train that I wouldn't usually consider booking.

A First Class Off Peak Return from Frome - Southend Stations is ^118.80 with a railcard. That's pretty expensive but on the greater scheme of things works out at ^59.40 each way.

With most First Class Advance Fares now being a minimum of ^45 each way. I think the FSR^▸ (First Scot Rail) as much as it hurts me to say it is going to be my best option in future mainly for the flexibility and not being tied to specific trains.

Or I'll reinvest in a Gold Card and buy an FSR to NBY^» (Newbury - next trains) and SVR between RDG^‡(resolve) and SOV with Gold Card First Class supplements at ^5 each way......


My next concern with First Class section is the lack of toilets we could have available. Assuming we have Full Buffet (Coach K) and then Coach L (Former Coach H) that leaves 1 toilet in First Class...

I wonder how many First Class Full Fare Payers would be happy about having to walk to Coach E or D to use a toilet if the only one in First was occupied or broken?

Me personally I just put up with it because I don't have much other choice. But on the few occasions I do PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) - LSK that would be incredibly annoying after a while

One will of course hope that the Power Car side toilet is reinstalled or a toilet in Coach K is installed


Key:
LSK = Liskeard
NBY = Newbury
PAD = London Paddington
RDG = Reading
SOV = Southend Victoria
FSR = First Class Off Peak Return
SVR = Standard Class Off Peak Return

[ChrisB]

Or I'll reinvest in a Gold Card and buy an FSR^▸ (First Scot Rail) to NBY^» (Newbury - next trains) and SVR between RDG^‡(resolve) and SOV with Gold Card First Class supplements at ^5 each way......

and what prey, between NBY & RDG? :-)

What's the cheapest Gold Card season you can get this year?