FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[Electric train]

Unfortunately the reduction in First Class seats to increase the number of Standard Class seats is a political game to win voters in the Thames Valley, the current sitting MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)'s (who happen to be in Government at the moment) need to win voters, as we run up to the next election they will be able to herald the fact they have increased the number of seats on train services.

Or am I just being a cynic 

[johoare]

Maid-->Paddington has a 1.5 carriage First Class. 15 people including myself are standing.
It is infuriating.

Train manager is "at the back if you want him". I try really hard not to swear on this forum but I might have to quite soon.

I understand your frustration, but if people are standing in First Class is it possible that the level of crowding in standard class made it difficult for the train manager to get from the back of the train?

The train manager never/rarely  makes it through to first class from the back of the train once we leave Maidenhead.. Even if First class is at the rear of the train...

[Rhydgaled]

Anyone know what ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) have in their 9 car trains?

Paul

3 FC^‡(resolve)/5.5 SC in the 91+MK4 sets.
2.5 FC/6 SC in the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train).

Indeed. Personally, I think the mrk4 sets should also be 2.5 first and 6 standard. 2.5 coaches of First sounds about right to me, maybe because it is what the Great Western full buffet sets have/had.

[IndustryInsider]

6 Standard certainly sounds about right for a long distance train.  Which is why the 9-car Pendo's at 5 Standard and 4 First has always been a silly ratio - though it's common to see one of the First Class carriages declassified.  I'm still confident the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) refurbishment will prove to be a good idea after the dust settles and will solve more problems that the few occasional ones it creates.

Maidenhead commuters will, at a guess, probably not get an IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) service of any worth from 2017 and will instead end up with 8-car Electric EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s providing their fast services.  Then, there might then be the argument of doing away with First Class altogether on those suburban style trains, as Chiltern has done with a little hostility to start with but now widely accepted of course - and they arguably passes through even more affluent areas than the Thames Valley corridor.

[ChrisB]

Agree with all of this - except they are slated as 12car EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) in the peaks

[adc82140]

I agree with II- The 1st class overcrowding on certain trains was bound to happen after this, but I think it will all shake down in due course. The additional standard capacity may well convince many of the short distance 1st class season ticket holders (ie Maidenhead & Twyford) to downgrade at the next ticket renewal, thus freeing up space in 1st. I know that when I was a Maidenhead commuter, I had a 1st Eastbound ticket purely to get a seat, not for any of the 1st class perks (not that we ever saw a trolley on the 08:00 from Maidenhead). It'll be interesting to see how things pan out once we get to the new year. 

[bobm]

With all this talk of 1.5 first class carriages or 2 .. I was suprisied to see the 3.5 first coaches proviided on this London bound service leaving Swindon yesterday....



The train itself was a 2+9 so I suspect it may have been a positioning move to get a carriage from one depot to another.

[JayMac]

I travelled on a 2+9 set the other day, advertised as such by the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System). There was a standard class Coach B at the London end that was locked out of use.

[chrisr_75]

A few weeks ago there was a set with 2 coach A's Swansea bound at about 8.25am at Bridgend.

Thus proving that 2+9 are perfectly able to maintain timings, at least on the core of the network and out to S.Wales...if they could locate some Mk3's (the difficult bit it seems - what did happen to all those loco hauled Mk3's from the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line)?) to convert to HST^▸ (High Speed Train) spec rather than mucking about quite so much with 1st class capacity, they really would be on to a winner!

[bobm]

Although it doesnt show too clearly in the photo, the set I saw certainly had three first class carriages at the front and then a 408xxx kitchen.  I don't know if any of the nine were locked out.

[NickB]

Maidenhead->Paddington was full and with standing passengers in 1st Class today, as is always the case these days.

I happened to notice that there were at least two FGW^▸ (First Great Western) employees (if quantity of keys is an indication I'd say they were TM^‡(resolve)'s) in seats in 1st whilst the passnegers stood.

What is the verdict/official position on this?

[broadgage]

Maidenhead->Paddington was full and with standing passengers in 1st Class today, as is always the case these days.

I happened to notice that there were at least two FGW^▸ (First Great Western) employees (if quantity of keys is an indication I'd say they were TM^‡(resolve)'s) in seats in 1st whilst the passnegers stood.

What is the verdict/official position on this?

I don't believe that this is allowed unless of course off duty and in possession of a first class ticket.
A small number of senior staff have free first class passes, but I believe that even holders of these are meant to stand if a first class passenger is standing.

[tom m]

Any railway employee or family member travelling using a ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) staff pass is required to surrender their seat to a full fare paying passenger in those circumstances, its part of the terms and conditions of the ATOC pass.

I am not sure what the situation is with employees travelling on company trains but I presume similar rules exist.

[Super Guard]

Maidenhead->Paddington was full and with standing passengers in 1st Class today, as is always the case these days.

I happened to notice that there were at least two FGW^▸ (First Great Western) employees (if quantity of keys is an indication I'd say they were TM^‡(resolve)'s) in seats in 1st whilst the passnegers stood.

What is the verdict/official position on this?

I don't believe that this is allowed unless of course off duty and in possession of a first class ticket.
A small number of senior staff have free first class passes, but I believe that even holders of these are meant to stand if a first class passenger is standing.

It's a massive no no, unless specifically authorised - ie. it is stated on a crew diagram, having been agreed by higher powers.

It would have to be a publicly available first class ticket, as even first class ticket purchased at staff discount rate requires them to stand if public fare paying are standing.  (Vast majority of staff do not have the entitlement to 1st class discount either).

You are correct re: first class passes, although I think there is a retired Gold pass that a tiny few still have that does not require them to stand.

[SDS]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff passes for 1st class are pretty rare and are not issued even to Station Managers or Flagship Station Managers (BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)/PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)/etc).
I am aware that certain staff from PR^▸ (Public Relations)/Comms get First Class passes and there are also +4 passes (ie the holder and 4 invited guests). However these also come under the give up your seat to a fare paying passenger rule.

The rules are that if a fare paying passenger customer is standing then the member of staff must give their seat up.
Even the ex BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) managers on Status Passes (the plastic ones with blue/silver/gold bar at the top) should also give their seats up.
Gold status passes also have the give up the seat rule. Generally gold status passes are given to executive grade staff at privatisation. E.g. Sector Directors, Sector MDs, and their partners. Gold status passes get you everything for free including sleeper berths.
There are even rarer passes then the status passes, medallions and the All Companies Free FIP pass.

Retired staff are exempt from the seat rule.

If you have purchased a staff discounted ticket then there is some argument over giving the seat up. I would say that as you have paid for the seat (in some format) then you are entitled to sit there. Sometimes even the advance tickets are cheaper then staff rate and in that case who would get the seat??


ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) Staff restrictions guide extract

Active staff holders of National Rail First Class travel facilities must give priority to fare-paying First Class customers.

Active staff holders of National Rail Standard travel facilities are requested to vacate their seats if fare-paying customers are standing.

In respect of journeys terminating at Paddington on services which arrive between 07.15 and 09.00 and journeys
departing from Paddington between 16.30 and 19.15, holders of all staff travel facilities should only use accommodation where spare seats are available. Whenever required by those joining en-route, seats should be vacated immediately.