FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

After finding no available first class seats on todays 7.08, as is regular these days, I thought I'd wander back into standard rather than standing for my journey.
What did I find? Acres of seats. There must be 15 unoccupied seats even after maidenhead. And this is coach K at the front, not the back.

What an absolute joke.

Yes, there were actually seven standard class coaches on that train this morning and just the one first class.  Temporary formations will continue to operate until the refurbishment programme is completed next year, though that's the first time I've spotted that particular formation!

So, that's probably why there was a little more space available in standard class - and also with the delayed 07:02 six carriage Turbo loading up in the other platform at pretty much the same time there may have been people who got on that instead - a wise move this morning given the air leak affecting the 07:08!

[NickB]

Yes, there were actually seven standard class coaches on that train this morning and just the one first class.  Temporary formations will continue to operate until the refurbishment programme is completed next year, though that's the first time I've spotted that particular formation!

So, that's probably why there was a little more space available in standard class - and also with the delayed 07:02 six carriage Turbo loading up in the other platform at pretty much the same time there may have been people who got on that instead - a wise move this morning given the air leak affecting the 07:08!

My view was the opposite - the 07.08 actually looked like it was collecting passengers that normally travel on the 07.02.  Platform 4 (for the 7.02) was markedly empty whereas Platform 2 for the 7.08 was businer than normal.  As the 7.08 should have arrived 4 mins earlier than the 7.02, and also pax just love an HST^▸ (High Speed Train), it makes sense that the 7.08 was busier than average.  Looks like the First Class strip out has swung too far.



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[BBM]

My view was the opposite - the 07.08 actually looked like it was collecting passengers that normally travel on the 07.02.  Platform 4 (for the 7.02) was markedly empty whereas Platform 2 for the 7.08 was businer than normal.

I was on the 07.02 (travelling from TWY^▸ (Twyford station)) and I'd concur with NickB's observations. 

[Super Guard]

Yes, there were actually seven standard class coaches on that train this morning and just the one first class.  Temporary formations will continue to operate until the refurbishment programme is completed next year, though that's the first time I've spotted that particular formation!

So, that's probably why there was a little more space available in standard class - and also with the delayed 07:02 six carriage Turbo loading up in the other platform at pretty much the same time there may have been people who got on that instead - a wise move this morning given the air leak affecting the 07:08!

My view was the opposite - the 07.08 actually looked like it was collecting passengers that normally travel on the 07.02.  Platform 4 (for the 7.02) was markedly empty whereas Platform 2 for the 7.08 was businer than normal.  As the 7.08 should have arrived 4 mins earlier than the 7.02, and also pax just love an HST^▸ (High Speed Train), it makes sense that the 7.08 was busier than average.  Looks like the First Class strip out has swung too far.

As per II's comment above, while not comfortable for first class passengers (no that's not acceptable), at this time of year with flat wheelset maintenance and while the refurb is in progress, if another first class coach is not available for a set, all efforts will still be made to make 8 coach sets.  The flip side is i've seen a declassified first class coach running round as coach 'B' before.

[IndustryInsider]

My view was the opposite - the 07.08 actually looked like it was collecting passengers that normally travel on the 07.02.  Platform 4 (for the 7.02) was markedly empty whereas Platform 2 for the 7.08 was businer than normal.  As the 7.08 should have arrived 4 mins earlier than the 7.02, and also pax just love an HST^▸ (High Speed Train), it makes sense that the 7.08 was busier than average.  Looks like the First Class strip out has swung too far.

Fair enough - I wasn't there, just looking for potential reasons and spotted that on the train list.

Either way, no permanent HST formations will be like the one that was in use today after the refurbishment programme is completed (i.e. a 7 to 1 standard to first class carriage ratio), they will either be 6.5 to 1.5 or 6 to 1.5 - but with carriages away for modifications it makes for some short notice marshalling and that can throw up oddities like today's extra carriage with its 80 or so extra standard class seats.

I'd be interested to hear, when the train formation is normal, what number of seats free or standees there are in Standard Class over an average week, and whether that number changes (and first class numbers) after season tickets come up for renewal at the end of the year, when we'll see if any first class one way seasons are not renewed due to the problems gaining a seat on the 07:08 train, one of the handful that struggle with first class capacity.

[ChrisB]

If there aren't enough 1st class seats for pax at Maidenhead on the 0708, I suspect the end of the 1st class Eastwards only seasons - especially as there will be extra Standard seats

[NickB]

As one of those 1st Eastbound Only passengers I view it as a bit of a 'prisoners dilemma'.  Everyone wants others to relinquish their 1st class tickets, but don't want to be the person who does it.   

On a standard day I estimate 50 1st class passengers for the 07.08 at maidenhead.  Nosaj said earlier that they took the last seat at Reading, so even with an extra 0.5 carriages there wouldn't be enough to go round.

[thetrout]

Buffet Car 40809 has been refurbished.

For those who are interested. It's in set OC52 with Power Car 43138 on the London End

*Disclaimer* - Correct as of 23:50 - 28/11/2014

[thetrout]

Also just some observations to compliment what has been said here in the last week.

That 1 First Class Coach K has been around in that set like that for a while. It's also the same carriage that has just 1 Toilet in First Class and this week it was out of order

Just to give you an idea... Here is a picture of it:



I took that picture on the 26th July 2014 - So just over 4 months ago.

I also saw one of the refurbished First Class Carriages last week in a set as a Coach B... With the First Class wording actually stitched into the seats. I wonder how many confused looks were given when passengers with reservations for Coach B were found to be in a First Class vehicle

Equally I wonder how many passengers took a seat in that carriage with a First Class ticket...?!

[trainer]

I noticed today that Coach K is now lettered on the down platform at Bristol Parkway which is helpful (didn't wander further down as I was in cattle class - appropriate for all trains going to Cardiff this morning - see my posting under Additional Trains for Wales v S Africa Rugby... http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14950.msg166319#new).


Edited by trainer to add URL

[John R]

Speaking of rugby and 1st class (and no, I'm not thinking of this afternoon's match in Cardiff, well maybe I am  ), 1st class was completely filled last night at Chippenham with rugby fans going to Bath.  They were waiting ready to board at the 1st doors, not filtering through as standard filled up, so clearly set out to travel in the wrong part of the train.

Spoke to the TM^‡(resolve) who joined at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) who said that shouldn't happen, "but some TM's can't be bothered".  Somewhat galling when the amount of first accommodation is already much diminished.

[Rhydgaled]

Speaking of rugby and 1st class (and no, I'm not thinking of this afternoon's match in Cardiff, well maybe I am  ), 1st class was completely filled last night at Chippenham with rugby fans going to Bath.  They were waiting ready to board at the 1st doors, not filtering through as standard filled up, so clearly set out to travel in the wrong part of the train.

Spoke to the TM^‡(resolve) who joined at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) who said that shouldn't happen, "but some TM's can't be bothered".  Somewhat galling when the amount of first accommodation is already much diminished.

The 'rugbyists' in my family seem to think First Class is declassified on these occasions (or that 'pepole power' will trump any attempt to enforce it). I've tried to warn them that folk on here have advised otherwise, and once I checked the firstgreatwestern booking website which only showed the extra FirstGW service starting at Port Talbot as 'standard class only' but they say they'll continue using first class. I wonder what they did today...

[Timmer]

Saw two HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) at Cardiff on Friday afternoon at the same time going in opposite directions both with just one First class carriage. So there are at least two sets around with just one First coach. If I had been on one of those sets in First at peak time with it full and standing, I wouldn't have been too pleased to hear that a refurb'ed First class coach is doing the rounds as a coach B on another set.

Before anyone replies, yes it's down to different sets at different depots with what stock is available due to maintenance, refurb, wheel flats etc.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From Get Reading:

MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Alok Sharma arranges high level meeting to discuss train overcrowding

Reading West MP will discuss the problem with Rail Minister and First Great Western MD


Reading West MP Alok Sharma discussing train petition at Tilehurst station.

Overcrowding on commuter trains will be the subject of a meeting Reading West MP Alok Sharma has arranged with a government minister and the boss of First Great Western (FGW^▸ (First Great Western)).

The Tory MP and disgruntled rail passenger has held discussions with Rail Minister Claire Perry about the problem and secured her agreement to meet FGW managing director Mark Hopwood.

Mr Sharma launched an online petition last month calling on FGW to declassify First Class carriages during periods of overcrowding, after his experience of commuting into London.

He said: "I'm grateful to Claire Perry for the discussions we have had on the issue of overcrowding and I will be raising the concerns of many of my commuting constituents in the joint meeting with First Great Western that not enough is being done to alleviate overcrowding in Standard Class during the busiest times. The option to declassify individual First Class carriages is available to First Great Western during periods of overcrowding but I have never seen this happen on any service I have used in the past 10 years."

Mr Sharma continued: "I appreciate that more Standard Class carriages are due to become available next year but I will be seeking a commitment from First Great Western in this meeting that in the meantime, they will declassify First Class carriages on busy trains more often to ease overcrowding in Standard Class and publish on a monthly basis the trains on which declassification took place."

Government figures released earlier this year showed commuters on FGW services suffer the highest level of rail overcrowding in the South East with some trains travelling at 173 per cent capacity.

Ms Perry said: "The services on the Great Western mainline are some of the most crowded on the network. That's why ^13 million is being invested creating 3,000 more standard class seats a day for customers across the network. This will also mean nearly 16 per cent more standard class accommodation on services into London in the busy morning peak. These are solutions to improve services for passengers on these busy trains.

"However, I do understand the concerns that Alok has raised on behalf of his constituents and I look forward to a constructive dialogue with Alok and First Great Western on this issue."

[ChrisB]

I hope the MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) persuade the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to compensate FGW^▸ (First Great Western) for lost 1st class fares in the 'busiest times'.

I've never seen sufficient empty 1st class seats in the busiest times to enable them to declassify a whole coach....