FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[chrisr_75]

I've never seen sufficient empty 1st class seats in the busiest times to enable them to declassify a whole coach....

Likewise. In almost 2 years of doing a weekly S.Wales-London return trip, mostly in first class, I've seen first declassified only the once, which was due to a significant number of Bristol TM^‡(resolve) bound trains being cancelled, so everyone was bumped onto the S.Wales services via Parkway. First class always used to be (with 2-2.5 first class coaches) sufficiently populated with first class ticket holders between PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-RDG^‡(resolve) that declassifying would only release a tiny number of seats, so really is not worth inconveniencing those first class passengers who are travelling beyond the Thames Valley area.

I think this chap is living in a parallel universe of some sort if he thinks regularly declassifying first, especially in the new configuration, is going make the slightest bit of difference! There is often space towards the front of HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s, but many RDG commuters seem to prefer to stuff themselves in like sardines in carriages that will stop close to the escalators at RDG.

Out of interest, could one of the insiders confirm if first class can be reclassified, for example after Reading, or once it's gone, is it gone until the train completes its journey?

[TaplowGreen]

I hope the MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) persuade the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to compensate FGW^▸ (First Great Western) for lost 1st class fares in the 'busiest times'.

I've never seen sufficient empty 1st class seats in the busiest times to enable them to declassify a whole coach....

This isn't necessarily about 1st class seats, it's as much about people having room to stand in relative comfort and safety without being crammed in like sardines - if you spread standees throughout the entire train rather than just standard class it stands to reason that this can be achieved at least to some degree.

As to compensation, the MP's responsibility is to represent the interests of his constituents, not FGW.

There is actually more to this article than meets the eye - for a long time Alok has been trying to get information on declassification (how often it happens etc) from FGW and they have been unwilling to supply it , so now they will have to cope with all the negative publicity which this will (rightly or wrongly) generate.

To be honest however it would be refreshing and cathartic for all concerned to get Hopwood,NR^» (Network Rail - home page) etc in front of a select committee where they are unable to hide and all the issues can be brought out into the open.....I suspect that day is not far off following recent events....in fact it may well generate sympathy for FGW in view of the signals etc.

[chrisr_75]

There is actually more to this article than meets the eye - for a long time Alok has been trying to get information on declassification (how often it happens etc) from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and they have been unwilling to supply it , so now they will have to cope with all the negative publicity which this will (rightly or wrongly) generate.

I don't really see why FGW should provide this data, as it will only be used in an attempt to criticise them in some way - I'm sure they'll be damned if they do, damned if they don't.

if you spread standees throughout the entire train

I've seen so many HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s bound for Reading with a relatively empty coach A/B/C and the standees all stuffed in further back so they will be close to the escalators at Reading. Many of the trains I've caught out of Paddington have also had the train manager announce that there's plenty seats towards the front, but folk are so obsessed with saving a 30 second walk along a platform that they just ram themselves in wherever there is a hint of a space. People can be their own worst enemies sometimes.

[ChrisB]

Indeed, Mark Hopwood ought to take Alok by the hand to Coach A on several services & show him the space (and occasionally even, empty seats). His voters are a really lazy bunch who would generally stand for 25 mins than look for seats in the front two coaches.

[NickB]

Anecdotal story from two separate journeys I made in the past week:

First Class was a single carriage, resulting in 20-30 people standing.  Rather than stand I made my way into the first Standard carriage, to find a) 20+ seats empty, and b) significant numbers of pax still standing, as though they didn't want the seats.

[chrisr_75]

Anecdotal story from two separate journeys I made in the past week:

First Class was a single carriage, resulting in 20-30 people standing.  Rather than stand I made my way into the first Standard carriage, to find a) 20+ seats empty, and b) significant numbers of pax still standing, as though they didn't want the seats.

Ah, but it might save those vital handful of seconds in escaping Reading station! As I recall coach E/F stop pretty much at the bottom of the escalators at Reading and presumably if you're already standing near the door you can beat a few more people in the desperate race to the escalators!!

I've also often seen on trains if a few people are standing in the vestibule, people tend to join them and blindly assume there are no free seats and then probably complain bitterly about it. There's nowt as queer as folk!

[paul7575]

Ah, but it might save those vital handful of seconds in escaping Reading station! As I recall coach E/F stop pretty much at the bottom of the escalators at Reading and presumably if you're already standing near the door you can beat a few more people in the desperate race to the escalators!!

They haven't worked out the transfer deck is double sided yet then?  Surely coaches A/B are similarly near the country end escalator - especially on P8...

Paul

[ChrisB]

I've already mentioned that they'll only walk as little as necessary - why walk to A/B when E/F will get tyhem there?!!

[TaplowGreen]

Indeed, Mark Hopwood ought to take Alok by the hand to Coach A on several services & show him the space (and occasionally even, empty seats). His voters are a really lazy bunch who would generally stand for 25 mins than look for seats in the front two coaches.

So basically it's not really an issue and the passengers are stupid/lazy - interesting view from the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fraternity, I'm sure the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) will find it instructive!

[broadgage]

Some trains are grossly overcrowded throughout, but I have seen many instances of severe overcrowding in std coaches D  or E  when seats remain in A.

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), first class should be at the country end to reduce these problems.

[ellendune]

Some trains are grossly overcrowded throughout, but I have seen many instances of severe overcrowding in std coaches D  or E  when seats remain in A.

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), first class should be at the country end to reduce these problems.

But then those of us who walk far enough to get a seat would not be able to.

[IndustryInsider]

Indeed, Mark Hopwood ought to take Alok by the hand to Coach A on several services & show him the space (and occasionally even, empty seats). His voters are a really lazy bunch who would generally stand for 25 mins than look for seats in the front two coaches.

So basically it's not really an issue and the passengers are stupid/lazy - interesting view from the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fraternity, I'm sure the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) will find it instructive!

I don't think any of those posts were from the FGW fraternity - by which I presume you mean the staff, or did you mean the FGW.info Coffee Shop fraternity?

[Timmer]

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), first class should be at the country end to reduce these problems.

One has to wonder that IF First class had been at the country end at Paddington that the reduction in First class accommodation would have even been thought about. Plenty will disagree but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be happening. Still, we can argue about it here but it's not going to change anything as the conversion process is already well under way.

[IndustryInsider]

Indeed, Mark Hopwood ought to take Alok by the hand to Coach A on several services & show him the space (and occasionally even, empty seats). His voters are a really lazy bunch who would generally stand for 25 mins than look for seats in the front two coaches.

So basically it's not really an issue and the passengers are stupid/lazy - interesting view from the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fraternity, I'm sure the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) will find it instructive!

I don't think any of those posts were from the FGW fraternity - by which I presume you mean the staff, or did you mean the firstgreat western.info Coffee Shop fraternity?

[chrisr_75]

Indeed, Mark Hopwood ought to take Alok by the hand to Coach A on several services & show him the space (and occasionally even, empty seats). His voters are a really lazy bunch who would generally stand for 25 mins than look for seats in the front two coaches.

So basically it's not really an issue and the passengers are stupid/lazy - interesting view from the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fraternity, I'm sure the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) will find it instructive!

It was mostly me commenting about the inability of some passengers to actually be bothered to make 30 seconds effort to walk up a platform and find a seat. I am not FGW staff, so please do not knock them on account of me recounting personal experience!

If I could be bothered travelling by train with any frequency, I would be more than happy to accompany this civil servant on one of my journeys and show him the random nature in which people tend to squeeze themselves into trains.

You only have to look at underground trains to see this - outside of the peak hours, often carriages near the platform entrance are stuffed and standing, 10 seconds walk away everyone has several seats to themselves...same type of thing goes on FGW.