East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

So thats what happens to TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) that withdraw restaurants !
Now what other franchise has recently anounced plans to reduce restaurants?

I suspect the withdrawal of meals on the East Coast route may have led to some busines travellers flying instead of going by train. The numbers were probably very small, but would have been full first open ticket holders.
Those paying hundreds of pounds a ticket , are what pays for the railway, and the loss of quite small numbers of full first class passengers has a substantial effect on revenue.

[John R]

I wish that were true, but the harsh reality is that employers everywhere are making cuts in business travel, changing policy to only permit standard travel, and so on. And at the other end of the market leisure travel will be hit, as well as commuting (though not sure how much of an impact the latter is for NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast)).

So I think the recession is to blame, though they may have lost a few more business tickets because of the loss of restaurant cars.   

[r james]

Perhaps now is a time for franchises to consider reducing the amount of first class seating on their trains? Surely on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) this would be a hge advantage for the seating capacity?!

[thetrout]

Perhaps now is a time for franchises to consider reducing the amount of first class seating on their trains? Surely on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) this would be a hge advantage for the seating capacity?!

Urm... No!

First Class on XC is often overcrowded and i've had occasions where i've had to sit in the luggage rack because there were no seats

A story that i'm sure Devon_Metro will fill you in on

Sorry if that post sounded a little ignorant, it wasn't ment to

[paul7575]

I think Govia should/will retain it.

When they realised a short franchise was needed until Thameslink was finished, why didn't they just extend the Southern franchise?

If Govia do lose it, a lot of money will be wasted on re-branding, which will become obsolete within a few year.

There would be no real need to relivery 'Southern' under a new operator. They don't use 'GoVia' on the trains, and the overall colours are different to other GoVia franchises, so it would be perfectly possible to just remove the vinyled 'Southern' logo.

Similarly, CrossCountry could be refranchised without any rebranding if it suited the incoming owner. (Though probably not if it was First or Virgin...)

Paul 

[caliwag]

Nat Ex certainly did waste lots of money on a dreadful rebranding...the light colours just showing up all the crap and brake dust after one journey, no thought at all. Bet there are still some GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) branded coaches floating around.
All very sad really...staff moral must be at a very low ebb. Time Daft got a real grip...look at quality not quantity. GNER had it spot on (OK after picking up the the best and most up-to-date BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) route...Inter-City East Coast were excellent), improve quality, customer service which included a pretty well guaranteed on train service, particularly in FC^‡(resolve).
They also some grand ideas about park and ride stations (just outside Edinburgh, Doncaster and at Hadleigh Wood) which got knocked back by the short sited Daft..."just run the trains, none of your grand plans wanted thanks".
If you remember there were "grand blue sky thinking" plans for Paddington to the West equally knocked back by Daft...same response, just run the trains.
Maybe things are changing, but until we get longer franchises, all we'll get are silly paint jobs...any more and the trains will not reach their top speed due to the weight of paint and decals!!

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

why dont they just subcontract catering ... let the buffet area out to an outside company that way they make money from renting the space and have no need to staff this would also provide the service that customers want

[Btline]

I think Govia should/will retain it.

When they realised a short franchise was needed until Thameslink was finished, why didn't they just extend the Southern franchise?

If Govia do lose it, a lot of money will be wasted on re-branding, which will become obsolete within a few year.

There would be no real need to relivery 'Southern' under a new operator. They don't use 'GoVia' on the trains, and the overall colours are different to other GoVia franchises, so it would be perfectly possible to just remove the vinyled 'Southern' logo.

Similarly, CrossCountry could be refranchised without any rebranding if it suited the incoming owner. (Though probably not if it was First or Virgin...)

Paul 

But all companies think their brands are important.

If Stagecoach win it, they'll re-paint all trains into their Red (local), blue (outer suburban) and white (express) colour theme. They did this with SWT^▸ (South West Trains) and EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about).

All of Govia's new signage/font/branding will be replaced with Stagecoach's.

The same would happen with NX if they got it.

And all for just a few years until half the routes become Thameslink.

That's why Scotland has the right idea - one brand (including livery, signage) no matter who runs the trains.

[John R]

why dont they just subcontract catering ... let the buffet area out to an outside company that way they make money from renting the space and have no need to staff this would also provide the service that customers want

They would have to pay any company to offer the service, as all catering is loss-making. Not surprising when you realise how many places at stations you can buy a coffee and a snack before you join the train. And at Paddington you can even pop into M&S or Sainsburys and grab some booze as well if you're so inclined at a fraction of the on train price.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

why dont they just subcontract catering ... let the buffet area out to an outside company that way they make money from renting the space and have no need to staff this would also provide the service that customers want

They would have to pay any company to offer the service, as all catering is loss-making. Not surprising when you realise how many places at stations you can buy a coffee and a snack before you join the train. And at Paddington you can even pop into M&S or Sainsburys and grab some booze as well if you're so inclined at a fraction of the on train price.

this has always surprised me on the railways! how can they run something at a loss which has such high profit margins? unlike a cafe or restrant they dont have to attract people threw the door lets face it they are already onboard! drop the prices abit and menu and price list on every seat you would see an increase, ok somethings like cooked meals are not going to work in that environment unless its prebooked and paid for but there is no reason why a more streamline buffet cant be popular and profitable!

[cereal_basher]

I have one of the freely-available on-line Bite cards giving me 20% off at station food outlets. It's another push to not buy on board. If they extended the Bite card offer so you could use it on board I am sure it would bring in extra revenue as there would be more customers, me included.

[Btline]

Lowering drinks to 99p would reap rewards for train buffets.

If this affects the profitability, then change supplier. (e.g. from Twinnings to PG Tips) On a train, I doubt people are going to be fussy about the kind of tea bag.

I would much rather buy a "cheapo-make" tea for 99p than a "posh-organic make" tea for ^1.60.

Ditto for Coke (use a cheap brand, buy in bulk and sell for 99p), coffee etc.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Lowering drinks to 99p would reap rewards for train buffets.

If this affects the profitability, then change supplier. (e.g. from Twinnings to PG Tips) On a train, I doubt people are going to be fussy about the kind of tea bag.

I would much rather buy a "cheapo-make" tea for 99p than a "posh-organic make" tea for ^1.60.

Ditto for Coke (use a cheap brand, buy in bulk and sell for 99p), coffee etc.

exactly lets face it how much is a tea bag, and milk works out at 5p a cup if that... at a pound there making 95 pence they could sell a hundred cups between penzance and paddington each trip easy and thats 95 quid, does the toc get to keep all the profit from food sold?

[devon_metro]

I often purchase a hot chocolate which, whatever price is maybe, is quite reasonable!

[cereal_basher]

I often purchase a hot chocolate which, whatever price is maybe, is quite reasonable!

I am not sure how much First Great Western Hot Chocolates are, all I know is that they are foul, too watery. The First Class ones on the other hand are really good.