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Author Topic: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic  (Read 59250 times)
trainer
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« Reply #195 on: November 16, 2013, 11:37:55 »

Thanks for the tip-off BNM  Smiley  I wonder how long it will remain before someone spots it and pulls it?
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stebbo
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« Reply #196 on: November 28, 2013, 14:06:35 »

It's been pulled.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #197 on: November 28, 2013, 14:12:05 »

How weird - reviews were good & audience impressive
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bobm
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« Reply #198 on: November 28, 2013, 17:17:40 »

How weird - reviews were good & audience impressive

I think stebbo was referring to its removal from youtube rather than being taken off Sky1 & Sky2
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stebbo
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« Reply #199 on: November 29, 2013, 10:38:57 »

Correct - it's been pulled from You Tube.
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grahame
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« Reply #200 on: January 17, 2014, 08:32:34 »

Three companies shortlisted for East Coast franchise:

Quote
The three are East Coast Trains, run by First Group; Keolis/Eurostar East Coast, run by Keolis (UK (United Kingdom)) and Eurostar International; and Inter City Railways, run by Stagecoach Transport Holdings and Virgin Holdings.

according to

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/106483-three-shortlisted-east-coast-franchise?

Quote
The government said it hoped the bidders would demonstrate how they would capitalise on the significant public investment along the route, including ^240m in infrastructure projects over the next five years.

Rail minister Stephen Hammond said: "We have embarked on one of the biggest programmes of rail investment ever, with over ^35bn being spent to enhance and run our rail network over the next five years.

"But for our railways to continue to grow we need strong private sector partners who can invest and innovate in ways that deliver a world class service."

An invitation to tender for the franchise will be issued in February and potential operators are expected to have at least three months to develop their bids. The franchise is due to start in February 2015 and is expected to run for a maximum of 11 years.

An interesting thing to watch as the great(er) Western franchise will need to be planned from later in 2015 ...
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #201 on: January 17, 2014, 23:20:48 »

From Stock Market Wire:

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FirstGroup delighted with East Coast shortlisting

FirstGroup is 'delighted' to be shortlisted for the InterCity East Coast franchise competition by the Department for Transport.

FirstGroup's managing director, UK (United Kingdom) Rail, Vernon Barker said: "We have extensive experience of intercity services and have a strong track record in delivering passenger growth as well as capacity and infrastructure upgrades on the long distance franchises we run - First Great Western, First ScotRail and First TransPennine Express.

"We look forward to reviewing the contract details and submitting an innovative, compelling, and value for money bid which meets the needs of taxpayers as well as customers and businesses along the East Coast route.

""We are delighted to have been shortlisted for the InterCity East Coast franchise competition."
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
anthony215
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« Reply #202 on: January 18, 2014, 00:00:04 »

Seems National Express didnt bother to even bid for this contract.

Anyway I am a little surprised Arriva didnt get shortlisted although I think we will see a rematch between First and Virgin/Stagecoach.

Keolis/Eurostar I think could spring a surprise which I do hope as it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #203 on: January 18, 2014, 00:06:27 »

... it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise

Ah, but would they have the necessary experience / credibility to do so?  Undecided
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
grahame
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« Reply #204 on: January 18, 2014, 06:35:07 »

... it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise

Ah, but would they have the necessary experience / credibility to do so?  Undecided

Eurostar are already a major Intercity operator, mind - as I recall the run the major services on the line from London St Pancras (next door to East Coast' London terminal at King's Cross) to Brussels and Paris. Perhaps we would see international services from Scotland to France ...
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ellendune
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« Reply #205 on: January 18, 2014, 08:22:50 »

... it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise

Ah, but would they have the necessary experience / credibility to do so?  Undecided

Eurostar are already a major Intercity operator, mind - as I recall the run the major services on the line from London St Pancras (next door to East Coast' London terminal at King's Cross) to Brussels and Paris. Perhaps we would see international services from Scotland to France ...

Who knows even International services from Scotland to England?

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thetrout
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« Reply #206 on: January 19, 2014, 15:43:12 »

Is it just me when I play devils advocate here and say the Government just either: A) Do not listen, B) Do not learn or C) Both A and B.

It seems the Government have been hellbent on getting this route back into private hands. Yet it has been making money and offers in my opinion a better service than a few privatised InterCity Operators.

Look at CrossCountry. Yes we all know I'm not a fan. But look at the First Class offering on a Peak Newcastle to London train vs a Peak Newcastle to Bristol Temple Meads train. East Coast offers complimentary cooked fresh breakfast and access to First Class Lounges (Big deal some may think).

CrossCountry a microwaved Bacon Bap. Yes FGW (First Great Western) is no better with the Microwave Bacon Roll which although is complimentary in First Class on CrossCountry is chargeable on FGW services.

Yet FGW do have Pullman and Travelling Chefs. Yes again chargeable food but much better than XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) offering on a long journey even with the additional expense.

I think the Government are setting themselves up for another fall. They should just leave it alone because in my opinion East Coast actually works well enough in Public Hands. It will be interesting to see what happens to the level of service come re-privatisation. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but I shan't hold my breath.

The phrase if it's not broken don't fix it come to mind.

Mind you. The tories seem to have an obsession with privatisation yet don't seem to learn. The recent privatisation of Royal Mail another setup for a large fall when you look into the technicalities and previous privatised services gone wrong... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #207 on: January 19, 2014, 23:45:26 »

Is it just me when I play devils advocate here and say the Government just either: A) Do not listen, B) Do not learn or C) Both A and B.

It seems the Government have been hellbent on getting this route back into private hands. Yet it has been making money and offers in my opinion a better service than a few privatised InterCity Operators.

Look at CrossCountry. Yes we all know I'm not a fan. But look at the First Class offering on a Peak Newcastle to London train vs a Peak Newcastle to Bristol Temple Meads train. East Coast offers complimentary cooked fresh breakfast and access to First Class Lounges (Big deal some may think).

CrossCountry a microwaved Bacon Bap. Yes FGW (First Great Western) is no better with the Microwave Bacon Roll which although is complimentary in First Class on CrossCountry is chargeable on FGW services.

Yet FGW do have Pullman and Travelling Chefs. Yes again chargeable food but much better than XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) offering on a long journey even with the additional expense.

I think the Government are setting themselves up for another fall. They should just leave it alone because in my opinion East Coast actually works well enough in Public Hands. It will be interesting to see what happens to the level of service come re-privatisation. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but I shan't hold my breath.

The phrase if it's not broken don't fix it come to mind.

Mind you. The tories seem to have an obsession with privatisation yet don't seem to learn. The recent privatisation of Royal Mail another setup for a large fall when you look into the technicalities and previous privatised services gone wrong... Roll Eyes
I agree, the government seem to have an obsession with privatisation. Personally, I think privatisation is stupid. Is something is loss making, contracting it out to a private company is going to increase cost to the taxpayer as you have to pay their profit margin too. On the other hand, if something is making a profit that is useful revenue for the treasary to use to minimise the spending cuts. Admittedly there is something to be said for competition, but that doesn't work in the rail industry. In theroy you could have effective competition if you replaced all services with open-access operators, but the whole network could collapse almost overnight if the operator doesn't make enough money (see WSMR (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway) (Wrexham and Shropshire)). However rolling stock is not going to work in private hands no matter what. Unless supply of rolling stock far outstrips demand, the leasing companies (ROSCOs» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)) might as well have a monopoly. Even if one ROSCO is cheaper, the more expensive one will still be able sell the leases to their rolling stock since, once the cheap stock is snapped up, the operators have no choice but to go to the more expensive one, thus there is no incentive for ROSCOs to reduce prices.

As for East Coast, it will not be making money (or much of it) much longer whether it is in public or private hands. This because the 'we do not learn' government has mandated the use of new trains ordered under a PFI deal (the costs of those have crippled hospital trusts apparently, yet still the government did it with IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.)). According to Modern Railways, the increase in rolling stock costs compared to the current fleet will come close to the current profit margin. Also, if I understood Modern Railways correctly, the current state-run East Coast company will actually be sold to the winning bidder.
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Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
trainer
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« Reply #208 on: January 20, 2014, 16:42:31 »

As has been noted before, the railways are very much operated by government-owned companies to a large extent.  However, it's the German, Dutch and French governments through their own railway companies.
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thetrout
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« Reply #209 on: January 20, 2014, 17:03:51 »

Thing with Railway Privatisation is it doesn't work on the competition element it's supposed to offer. Many rail companies have a complete monopoly on the routes they serve. Take Frome - Bath Spa. All direct trains operated by First Great Western. A very select few trains from Westbury (3 or 4) to Bath Spa operated by South West Trains. Yet the fares for both trains are exactly the same.

South West Trains have the option of First Class from Westbury - Bath Spa. The fare is set by FGW (First Great Western). FGW also run a Trowbridge - Bath Spa service with First Class at 19:02 on weekdays. Same price as South West Trains and the possibility of a free coffee and biscuits if the buffet is open.

But the point comes back to the incentive to compete with other operators. The only competition would be with the bus service. Which is owned by FirstGroup. The same parent company of First Great Western. So what incentive would there be for competition. Well on purely rail front, there is none as no other operator serves Frome Station.

The bus privatisation model however is a completely different story. in Frome we have both First Avon & Somerset Bus and Faresaver buses. Both operators extremely competitive against each others' services and fares regularly reflect this.

For example. Students who have a valid student ID can travel on the Faresaver services for a Child Fare. Ladyfriend Trout is (or was before graduating) studying a Masters Degree and had a Student Card. Despite being 26 she still travels on a Child Fare on Faresaver.

FirstBus would charge Ladyfriend Trout an Adult Fare at nearly double the cost. So which bus will Ladyfriend Trout use?

Then ladyfriend trout accompanies thetrout to the Royal United Hospital for an appointment. Ladyfriend trout decides to use the FirstBus despite no student discounts... Lips sealed Why? Because Ladyfriend Trout will buy a First Day SouthWest for ^7.00 (IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly)) and use it on the number 14 from the Bus Station in Bath to the RUH.

However could such competition be applied to the railways?? I think it would be a total none starter myself.

That being said, operating the Rail Network in a similar way to the London Bus Network could work very well. Commercial Operators running the services under contract with the DfT» (Department for Transport - about). DfT handles all services under a single brand and take all the fares/revenue. Contracts with the commercial operators to run the services on behalf of the DfT can be tendered without any real need to have a full bidding process. The DfT tell the operators what they want, the operators name the price and the contract goes to the bidder who offers the most reliable service contract but not necessarily the cheapest. Say 50% discount on fees for 3 months if punctuality drops below 75%
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