Cotswold Line stopping patterns

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

/the trains that need to be HST^▸ (High Speed Train) are:

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion):
Down service:

1722 - stops all stations except the halts
1751 - run it only to oxford - its so slow north of there it only arrives minutes before the 1822 and often holds it up - connect with a fast service to WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains)
1822 - express - reverse of the 0630ih
1922 - stops al stations except the halts

Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but are you suggesting that the 15:51ex Paddington doesn't need to be a HST?

I think ive only been on it twice so have no real opinion - except that it seemed to follow the normal patter - rammed to oxford and relatively light on/off beyond until WOS when 99% got off.  Maybe it coud be a HST but I think HST to Oxford and then a 158 etc beyond - its a 2+7 anyway

The reason I dont lie 2+7 is its impossible to get a proper cold drink on them unless you want ice - especially since I now have to pay for tepid coke.   Not everyone drinks tea and coffee.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

wouldn't it be better using the lhs from the taunton to cardiff add a couple of carriages and a buffet and use a turbo on the taunton-cardiff

[devon_metro]

wouldn't it be better using the lhs from the taunton to cardiff add a couple of carriages and a buffet and use a turbo on the taunton-cardiff

No.

[IndustryInsider]

/the trains that need to be HST^▸ (High Speed Train) are:

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion):
Down service:

1722 - stops all stations except the halts
1751 - run it only to oxford - its so slow north of there it only arrives minutes before the 1822 and often holds it up - connect with a fast service to WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains)
1822 - express - reverse of the 0630ih
1922 - stops al stations except the halts

Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but are you suggesting that the 15:51ex Paddington doesn't need to be a HST?

I think ive only been on it twice so have no real opinion - except that it seemed to follow the normal patter - rammed to oxford and relatively light on/off beyond until WOS when 99% got off.  Maybe it coud be a HST but I think HST to Oxford and then a 158 etc beyond - its a 2+7 anyway

The reason I dont lie 2+7 is its impossible to get a proper cold drink on them unless you want ice - especially since I now have to pay for tepid coke.   Not everyone drinks tea and coffee.

Well, having been on it more than once or twice myself, I'll offer my opinion. It's a very popular train should be at the very least a 2+7 HST (bearing in mind these will all soon be fitted with a buffet car, so you'll get your cold drinks without ice). It is usually about 80% full after leaving Oxford (busier on Friday's) dropping off steadily at all the stations en route until it has about 80-100 people left on board at Worcester. You think that is a suitable train to run only as far as Oxford? With everybody then having to trapse off and wander over to platform 3 for a connecting low capacity 158, adding at least five minutes to the journey and providing nowhere near enough seats until around Moreton?

If you are seriously suggesting that, then if it ever actually happens I'll arrange for you to spend the month in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Customer services dealing with all the complaints!

[willc]

II - don't even bother - we're back to the usual fantasy land stuff about how special Worcester is and everyone else on the Cotswold Line and elsewhere on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network can go to hell.

How can you take this stuff seriously when:

Someone says Honeybourne is south of Moreton?

They clearly never tried to catch one of the Herefords in a morning at Evesham before the extra stops in the Vale were inserted - chaos in the car park and streets around Evesham station.

Who almost never use the 15.51, so appear to have no idea it is as heavily loaded, if not more so, than the 17.22 and 18.22  - and it is like this well beyond Oxford, as you say

Say a Didcot-Moreton shuttle will run - no, it's just a proposal at present

Say a 150 would be a better level of service than a Turbo - have you been on an LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150 recently (coming FGW's way soon)? Totally knackered and getting minimum maintenance.

Talk about 172s that have not even been ordered yet as though they are a done deal - two months past the Government's own April deadline and counting... and won't be in service until 2012 at the earliest, many months after redoubling is completed.

Continue to just brush off the heavy demand in the peaks for through travel between Hanborough, Reading and London - the stops there are nothing to do with who the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) is, they are to do with making money. For the umpteenth time, it doesn't just serve the village, it is the station for Woodstock and Witney.

Blithely dismiss the need for through Cotswold trains apart from the times when they travel - the 8.52 and 9.52 from Malvern are carrying 250 people most days when they reach Oxford - 300 or so on the 8.52 on stupid days. So clearly there's no demand there.

And best of all say, there are too many through trains Yes. let's turn the clock back to 1992.... getting soaked moving between platforms at Oxford on a winter night again - that will do wonders for the passenger figures.

cereal basher, the usage of the line exploded in 1993 once Turbos and through trains all day round arrived - there is a reason we have through trains, because lots of people use them to travel past Oxford both ways.

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are capacity overkill on many of the off-peak trains but they are all FGW has available in this area apart from turbos, which aren't adequate for the peak shoulder services. Getting rid of 180s was a mistake in the capacity respect, but their reliability was shocking at times and is still causing problems now for the new operators - and some proper local marketing of the line itself, the Cotswold Line Railcard and the top-secret LM-set bargain evening fare between the stations from Moreton westwards would all help to fill some of those empty seats.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

II - don't even bother - we're back to the usual fantasy land stuff about how special Worcester is and everyone else on the Cotswold Line and elsewhere on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network can go to hell.

How can you take this stuff seriously when:

Someone says Honeybourne is south of Moreton?

They clearly never tried to catch one of the Herefords in a morning at Evesham before the extra stops in the Vale were inserted - chaos in the car park and streets around Evesham station.

Who almost never use the 15.51, so appear to have no idea it is as heavily loaded, if not more so, than the 17.22 and 18.22  - and it is like this well beyond Oxford, as you say

Say a Didcot-Moreton shuttle will run - no, it's just a proposal at present

Say a 150 would be a better level of service than a Turbo - have you been on an LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150 recently (coming FGW's way soon)? Totally knackered and getting minimum maintenance.

Talk about 172s that have not even been ordered yet as though they are a done deal - two months past the Government's own April deadline and counting... and won't be in service until 2012 at the earliest, many months after redoubling is completed.

Continue to just brush off the heavy demand in the peaks for through travel between Hanborough, Reading and London - the stops there are nothing to do with who the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) is, they are to do with making money. For the umpteenth time, it doesn't just serve the village, it is the station for Woodstock and Witney.

Blithely dismiss the need for through Cotswold trains apart from the times when they travel - the 8.52 and 9.52 from Malvern are carrying 250 people most days when they reach Oxford - 300 or so on the 8.52 on stupid days. So clearly there's no demand there.

And best of all say, there are too many through trains Yes. let's turn the clock back to 1992.... getting soaked moving between platforms at Oxford on a winter night again - that will do wonders for the passenger figures.

cereal basher, the usage of the line exploded in 1993 once Turbos and through trains all day round arrived - there is a reason we have through trains, because lots of people use them to travel past Oxford both ways.

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are capacity overkill on many of the off-peak trains but they are all FGW has available in this area apart from turbos, which aren't adequate for the peak shoulder services. Getting rid of 180s was a mistake in the capacity respect, but their reliability was shocking at times and is still causing problems now for the new operators.

basically will i think its the minority that wants to go first class and have a traveling cheff or something silly that is complianing

[Btline]

How can you say "how special Worcester is and everyone else on the Cotswold Line and elsewhere on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network can go to hell."

If we had it your way, it would be how special the Cotswold villages are, Worcester and Hereford can go to hell.

The fact of the matter is, Worcester and Hereford need faster trains, esp in the peak hours.

[devon_metro]

The fact of the matter is, Worcester and Hereford need faster trains, esp in the peak hours.

I was under the impression they were all travelling by Chiltern Rlys?

[Btline]

And if the Cotswold got faster, they'd switch back - plus a huge amount of new traffic.

[devon_metro]

Clearly you don't understand that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) runs as many trains as it can to cater for the actual demand that is nearer to Oxford (i'm sure willc will confirm) and as such they are unable to run faster trains at Worcester/Hereford.

I fail to see why anybody would choose Chiltern with their DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (who knows - you might get a turbo heaven forbid) vice an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) on the morning peak services, just because it is a bit slower than it used to be...

Do Chiltern offer First Class/DECENT buffet facilities? If not then quite why any sane business(wo)man would evade the Cotswolds i'm not sure. Anyway, its about to be doubled, so why all the fuss - no doubt redoubling will make things a hell of a lot faster.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm surprised that with their obviously passionate views about the speed of services on the Cotswold Line that neither Btline or FallenAngel gave their thoughts on the timetable possibility that I worked on based on the potential of the current redoubling scheme (located herehttp://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3602.240 in the Cotswold Line Redoubling thread).

So, I'll ask them directly. Do you both think a timetable of this nature would be enough to win back all/most/some/hardly any of this lost custom to Chiltern and other operators? After all, almost all of the slack is removed from the timetable - albeit with very few station stops removed. If not, what should be done to improve upon it?

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

how long is this journey?

[devon_metro]

MY first comment, is the fact that you won't get a path leaving Paddington at xx12. 2 behind HEX and 3 in front of CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains).

[Mookiemoo]

Probably because much of that thread i was in belfast and not as active on here!

Just looked at it - funnily enough - the timings are what they were back in 2004 - give or take.

To be honest, If the peaks are HST^▸ (High Speed Train) through, I have no real passion about the stock.  What bugs me the most is the erosion timetable change by time table change of the main peak into London.

There needs to be a train arriving into Paddington at 830ish - that means you have a fighting chance to get to the office by 9.  The 0635 used to do that.  Now the 0624 gets you in closer to 9am!  Unless you work on the doorstep of Paddington, 930 is your earliest chance of getting in.  Now do that, and try leaving the office before 6pm to get the 1822 regularly and see how long you last.

And for those of us who dont actually live in Worcester, the 530ish means getting up close to 0445 every morning to then get home at 2130.  Even im not that mental.

[Btline]

Did I not comment? I'm sure I said that a 4.15 pm-ish departure from Worcester to at least Evesham would me needed.

I remember being impressed with the journey time reductions. A headline time of less than 2 hours to Worcester would be achievable by the removal of a stop or two.