Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Interesting airport comparison ...

http://www.world-airport-codes.com/uk-top-20-airports.html

[Red Squirrel]

The current fixed crossings of the Severn estuary appear to work perfectly well at the moment...

Actually they can be pretty awful, especially at peak travel times. They are certainly well below the standard required to integrate the economies of the Severnside cities.

[LiskeardRich]

I'm not an expert when it comes to flight routes in and out of Cardiff airport but looking at Google maps it looks like the approach from the South East is mainly over the Bristol Channel. I would like to think that an aircraft landing at Cardiff from this direction would not be the cause of alot of noise if decending from over English landfall.

Looking at the land to the NW of the Airport there does not seem to be much in the way of concentrated development under the flight path under the approach to Cardiff.

Am I right in think that the runway at Cardiff is more suitable for larger aircraft than Bristol? I seem to remember they service 747-xxx Aircraft at Cardiff although I accept they will be lightly loaded on arrival/departure from Cardiff

Runway 27 at Bristol - used 70% of time due to prevailing winds has a size/weight restriction for planes, so limited what can use Bristol. Runway 27 is one of the shortest international runways in the country.

[John R]

could form the basis of a 'Western Powerhouse' linking Bristol, Cardiff, Bath and Newport. Lundy Megacity, anyone?

Except that Lundy Island is about 70 miles west of Cardiff.

[Red Squirrel]

could form the basis of a 'Western Powerhouse' linking Bristol, Cardiff, Bath and Newport. Lundy Megacity, anyone?

Except that Lundy Island is about 70 miles west of Cardiff.

Good point, well made: I've gone and mixed up Flat Holm with Lundy again.

Actually, Flat Holm Megacity works better - it's less likely to get confused with London...

[chrisr_75]

The current fixed crossings of the Severn estuary appear to work perfectly well at the moment...

Actually they can be pretty awful, especially at peak travel times. They are certainly well below the standard required to integrate the economies of the Severnside cities.

Wasn't referring to any congestion issues on the M4 (I find Newport is actually far more of an issue than the Bridges). My point was simply that a significant proportion of Bristol airport's business comes from S.Wales...

An additional crossing would be desirable, especially if it were to include provision for extra rail capacity, however, we certainly do not need the proposed tidal barrage...!

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Long-haul future for Cardiff Airport, says Carwyn Jones


Cardiff's runway could be widened to land the Airbus A380, Carwyn Jones said

Cardiff Airport's future lies in long-haul flights, not competing with Bristol on closer destinations, First Minister Carwyn Jones has said.

He told AMs the airport "will not lose money this year as it did in the previous financial year".

But Welsh Tory leader Andrew RT Davies said there were "substantial negatives" at the airport and "few new routes".

Last week, German airline Germanwings announced it was ending flights between Cardiff and Dusseldorf in 2015. The airline said it was because the route did not meet its expectations.

Cardiff Airport was bought by the Welsh government for ^52m in 2013 and ministers have set aside ^3m to spend on developing routes next year.

At First Minister's Questions in the Senedd, Mr Jones said: "Bristol Airport has been very successful in short-haul flights and in business flights and it would be very difficult to take Bristol on, if I can put it that way, in that regard. However we do have great advantages over Bristol in terms of long-haul flights, in terms of the length of the runway, in terms of the 24-hour operation that we have."

He said there was potential to widen Cardiff's runway to accommodate an Airbus A380, the world's largest passenger plane. "So that's where the advantages will come for us in the future," he said. But he warned that trans-Atlantic routes were not a "holy grail".

He said the Welsh government wanted private investors to buy shares in the airport and "there is interest" in forming a public-private partnership.

Passenger satisfaction had increased "enormously", Mr Jones said, adding that Welsh ministers were "very optimistic about the airport's medium to long-term future".

A British Airways A380 superjumbo visited the airport for the first time last year, to test its ability to handle an aircraft of its size and prove it could cope in the event of a diversion.

[TonyK]

Er, Cardiff has trouble filling the 19 seats of a Jetstream 31 to Anglesey, let alone an A380. The runway isn't the most crucial part of the infrastructure for an A380, which is designed to have much the same footprint and physical impact on a runway as a Boeing 747 - and we know they can land at Cardiff. It was the widening and gauge clearing of taxiways, plus double-deck airbridges and the like that cost the money at Heathrow and elsewhere. Modern aircraft generally are being made lighter, the engines more powerful, yet cleaner and quieter. Pilots calculate the TOGA (Take Off / Go Around) power setting on the weight, temperature, altitude, weather, runway condition etc, so as to use most of the runway. A take-off from Bristol, therefore, will be more expensive because of the shorter run-up than one from Cardiff, but not hugely so. Design changes will reduce the advantage of longer runways further in a few years.

The runway is around 280 metres longer than Bristol's, and around 300 metres shorter (and over 40 metres narrower!) than Filton's was. It is oriented 12/30, almost south-east to north-west, meaning a long leisurely approach over the Bristol channel in most case, and an uncluttered approach, just skirting the now usually quiet RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) St Athan's controlled zone, from the other end. It has a railway station almost on site, and is on the edge of a capital city. But it is losing its Germanwings connection because not enough Welsh want to go to Dusseldorf and even fewer Germans want to do the opposite trip. It is too far from London to be a budget alternative to a Heathrow flight.

Bristol has never tried to be a "hub" airport. It was brought up from its lowly status originally by the late Les Wilson, who took it first from loss to profit, then to a steady but sustainable period of expansion until his tragic death after 15 years at the helm. It has continued its expansion largely because of good governance and a sizeable catchment area, which includes Cardiff and Newport, linked by regular buses, as well as rail and the Airport Flyer. As the number of people flying from Bristol grows, so the number of people wanting fly grows, and the airlines are quick to meet the need. There is a critical mass, which is now leading to further expansion.

Cardiff has, in contrast, lost out. It was bought by the Welsh government. Its task force to promote growth was a committee of councillors, trade union representatives, and tourist chiefs, but no airlines. Whether that is the right way to do things, I don't know, but it has enticed Ryanair back recently. Bristol Airport continues to say the Welsh Assembly paid too much for the airport, at less than half the price paid for Filton for housing, even though it has the servicing facility for BA^» (British Airways - about)'s heavy fleet.

An approach over water doesn't always favour the amateur pilot, many of whom visit Cardiff because it is easier and cheaper to use than Bristol. Disorientation over water has been the cause of many an accident, including the death of a branch of the Kennedy family. Navigation can be difficult - others than Red Squirrel have mistaken Flat Holm for Lundy, I am sure. Lundy has an airfield, Flat Holm does not. Lundy is for the intrepid and experienced only. It is around 400 metres of grass, oriented 06/24 and marked by white posts. The surface is described as 'rough', 'quite rough' and 'rough with rabbit holes and rocks'. PPR is required by phone, so the sheep can be cleared. I wouldn't.

[JayMac]

PPR is required by phone, so the sheep can be cleared. I wouldn't.

Public Performance Rights? Why aren't the sheep allowed to watch? 

[BerkshireBugsy]

@ftn thank you very much for your detailed contribution - most interesting.

I have a few questions about Cardiff Airport

1) someone mentioned there is a railway station nearby - where is that ?

2) regarding the use of the airport , when was it as its peak in terms of
A) number of flights per day
B) number of passengers per day
C) number of different routes and airlines using it as a base?

Has it ever been possible to fly directly from Cardiff to the USA ? I seem to remember this was possible in the past.

Of course a crystal ball would be useful here in terms of predicting economic trends and passenger demands in the next couple of decades

[Rhydgaled]

I have a few questions about Cardiff Airport

1) someone mentioned there is a railway station nearby - where is that ?

I don't know how far away it is, but it is called Rhoose. And sub-titled Cardiff International Airport I believe. It is on the Vale Of Glamorgan line which runs between Cardiff and Bridgend via Barry. I think there is a shuttle bus from Rhoose station to the airport but the premier 'Cardiff Airport Express' bus (using vehicles originally intended for the Cardiff-Newtown and Carmarthen-Aberystwth TrawsCymru routes) runs to Cardiff Central not Rhoose.

[stuving]

I have a few questions about Cardiff Airport

1) someone mentioned there is a railway station nearby - where is that ?

I don't know how far away it is, but it is called Rhoose. And sub-titled Cardiff International Airport I believe. It is on the Vale Of Glamorgan line which runs between Cardiff and Bridgend via Barry. I think there is a shuttle bus from Rhoose station to the airport but the premier 'Cardiff Airport Express' bus (using vehicles originally intended for the Cardiff-Newtown and Carmarthen-Aberystwth TrawsCymru routes) runs to Cardiff Central not Rhoose.

It's right by the airport, but the opposite side from the terminal(s) - like Dyce.

Cardiff Airport is located in Rhoose which has a rail link connecting to Cardiff Central and Bridgend.

Trains run every hour from Monday to Saturday and every two hours on Sundays.

A shuttle bus service from the train station to the Airport is available for passengers, which connects with all trains, to carry passengers on the short journey to the Airport terminal. The journey takes approximately 10 minutes and there is a small charge of ^1 per journey on the shuttle bus.

Full facilities are available for passengers requiring special assistance.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Further developments, from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Cardiff Airport given ^3.5m to attract new airlines

Cardiff Airport has been told it can borrow ^3.5m of taxpayers money to try to attract new airlines.

The Welsh government described it as the most significant step at the airport since buying it 18 months ago. It comes after First Minister Carwyn Jones said its future lies in long-haul flights, not competing with Bristol on closer destinations.

The last time such a fund was available was in 2006 when ^4m was used by the then privately-owned airport.

Cardiff Airport has had mixed fortunes under public ownership. It was bought by the Welsh government for ^52m in March 2013 and has invested about ^10m in improvements at the terminal.

A general decline in passenger numbers was halted, although figures for September showed a 7% reduction on the year. Earlier in November, the German airline Germanwings announced it was ending flights between Cardiff and Dusseldorf in 2015, following on from Cityjet scrapping a service to Glasgow. But Ryanair has returned to the airport after an eight-year gap with a weekly flight to Tenerife.

Speaking on BBC's Good Morning Wales radio programme, Welsh Conservative assembly leader Andrew RT Davies said looking at the figures, the government had "not done a very good job" since taking over the airport. "Regrettably, there's been a year-on-year decline of 7% in passenger figures. We know of a series of airlines that have chosen to pull out... and we know the most senior executive there, the managing director, left very quickly at the end of August," he said. "There doesn't seem to be much stability there, but what we need to do is make sure an airport works for Wales and the Welsh economy."

However he added he did welcome the route development fund announcement but said the government had been slow to put it in place. "For an airport to be successful, you need airlines to use it and you also need those routes to bring people in as well as take people out because obviously the more people you bring in that's a greater boost to the Welsh economy," he said. "Those people are either coming in on business or tourism and they're spending and creating wealth in Wales. It's not about the airport, it's about the airlines."

[chrisr_75]

Further developments, from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Cardiff Airport given ^3.5m to attract new airlines

Cardiff Airport has been told it can borrow ^3.5m of taxpayers money to try to attract new airlines.

The Welsh government described it as the most significant step at the airport since buying it 18 months ago. It comes after First Minister Carwyn Jones said its future lies in long-haul flights, not competing with Bristol on closer destinations.

The last time such a fund was available was in 2006 when ^4m was used by the then privately-owned airport.

Cardiff Airport has had mixed fortunes under public ownership. It was bought by the Welsh government for ^52m in March 2013 and has invested about ^10m in improvements at the terminal.

A general decline in passenger numbers was halted, although figures for September showed a 7% reduction on the year. Earlier in November, the German airline Germanwings announced it was ending flights between Cardiff and Dusseldorf in 2015, following on from Cityjet scrapping a service to Glasgow. But Ryanair has returned to the airport after an eight-year gap with a weekly flight to Tenerife.

Speaking on BBC's Good Morning Wales radio programme, Welsh Conservative assembly leader Andrew RT Davies said looking at the figures, the government had "not done a very good job" since taking over the airport. "Regrettably, there's been a year-on-year decline of 7% in passenger figures. We know of a series of airlines that have chosen to pull out... and we know the most senior executive there, the managing director, left very quickly at the end of August," he said. "There doesn't seem to be much stability there, but what we need to do is make sure an airport works for Wales and the Welsh economy."

However he added he did welcome the route development fund announcement but said the government had been slow to put it in place. "For an airport to be successful, you need airlines to use it and you also need those routes to bring people in as well as take people out because obviously the more people you bring in that's a greater boost to the Welsh economy," he said. "Those people are either coming in on business or tourism and they're spending and creating wealth in Wales. It's not about the airport, it's about the airlines."

That's another ^3.5m down the can then, thanks to the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about)...why do we need a) to buy a failing airport with public money, and b) to prop it up during its death throes with more public money, when councils across the country are furiously cutting what I would describe as essential public services...

The fanfare about Ryanair returning is just ridiculous, I had no idea it was just a single weekly flight, from a notoriously fickle airline. The public fanfare hinted it would be something rather more widespread than one miserable flight a week!!

[TonyK]

PPR is required by phone, so the sheep can be cleared. I wouldn't.

Public Performance Rights? Why aren't the sheep allowed to watch? 

Sorry - Prior Permission Required.