Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

We all thought it, now it may be a reality:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-bristol-39366719

Great Western electrification: 'Line may never be electrified beyond Chippenham'

The chairman of Network Rail has delivered a further blow to commuters on part of the Great Western rail line as he says electrification may now not happen past Chippenham.

In November the government deferred electrification work from Thingley Junction - linking Bath Spa to Bristol Temple Meads - and three other routes because of the escalating cost .

New trains will be converted to run on both diesel and electricity and ministers must now decide whether to fund the deferred work in the 2020s.

Sir Peter Hendy, who heads up Network Rail and lives in Bath, says he wouldn't worry if electrification doesn't happen.

 

[IndustryInsider]

I think it should be done, but if the money isn't there I would prioritise Oxford over it as the benefits are much reduced beyond Chippenham given the linespeeds from there to Bristol, and the awkward and costly nature of installing and maintaining the equipment and not upsetting people at Box Tunnel and through the Bath area.

I have a feeling it will be done eventually, though it might be CP7 or 8.

[Noggin]

I got the impression his point was that if the only stock that would be using the wires were 80x's, which would be quite happy running on diesel, then why bother and prioritise lines where there was an urgent need, and wiring would enable 100% conversion to electric traction.

Of course there's also the counter argument that if Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Bath are wired then that's the "big ticket" items out of the way, and the BCR^▸ (Benefit Cost Ratio) for future projects, such as a Bristol suburban electrification, Bristol to Birmingham etc will be much better.

But we know that realistically, electrification's likely to be deferred until resignalling is complete and East Junction has been rebuilt (not to mention that Temple Meads is probably due some fairly hefty building work itself). So I wonder if it's more likely that there will be a big Bristol suburban programme late in CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) to coincide with the retirement of the Turbos?

[ChrisB]

Turbo retirement in 7 years time? Unlikely, surely?

[ellendune]

So long as we have a continuing electrification programme to keep (and build) expertise here in the West and Wales then I am more relaxed about which lines to do first.

[Tim]

So long as we have a continuing electrification programme to keep (and build) expertise here in the West and Wales then I am more relaxed about which lines to do first.

absolutely.  And the decision of which lines to do is most sensibly driven by rolling stock (ie when diesel trains are due to be replaced or where another route is crying out to pinch them).

What we need is a rolling programme which is busy enough to keep skills, but not so busy that it is overloaded and screws things up.   

[ChrisB]

So, where is next that will keep them occupied?

[ellendune]

So, where is next that will keep them occupied?

Well that is what we will see when we know more about CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024), 7 and 8.  There are plenty of candidates if you include Oxford, Swansea and the Valley Lines not to mention Filton to Temple Meads and Chippenham to Temple Meads.  In the longer term there is Bristol to Bromsgrove, Bristol Suburban lines

[onthecushions]

So, where is next that will keep them occupied?

I imagine that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) has plenty of wiring to complete even with the economies announced.

If it wants to do more it must prove itself by lower costs and timely progress. It must learn real engineering - solving problems within a budget and vigorously contesting other impediments that bystanders such as ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) throw up.

Wires only need to follow the traffic, i.e. where EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s are needed or where the bi-modes will struggle. I suggest that in our area that means to Oxford (without an unaffordable new station) and up the hills (Box tunnel and Newton Abbot - Plymouth approaches) but probably not now West of Cardiff. Nationally, wires are most needed in the large regional population centres such as in Lancashire and Yorkshire, where the economy is hindered by poor public transport.

The quickest way to increase electric mileage is to make the Voyagers bi-mode.

Perhaps,

OTC

[onthecushions]

Has anyone suggested converting half of the class 43 fleet primary electric power (essentially their diesel engines are used to make electricity anyway, right?) and running trains with one electric and one diesel power car?  There' an awful lot of diesel mileage that doesn't need to be on both east and west coasts, some of it coming up cross country.

I asked a driver friend recently about the ratings of the new MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) diesel engines, as they have been set to match the previous Paxman Valentas' 1680kW (1380kW at rail). He commented that they do have the facility, if one power car is out (not very often with the German engines) of using their true capacity of up to 2000kW.

At the other end, the electric power would be limited by the existing mass of 68t and the capacity of the motor bogies but would be well in excess of the diesel car.

Their 40 year age would raise questions. There are LBSCR Terriers from 1874 still running!

Fascinating idea.

OTC

[IndustryInsider]

That might be possible if engineers were to play around with the software, but it's not something a driver has the ability/authority to do on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) when running on one engine only.

[grahame]

With only an electric engine on one end, or a diesel on the other, acceleration would be limited by adhesion, unless power was transmitted up and down the train. In effect a 2 + 8 would become 1 + 9 and there would be a few places with restart issues to be considered - in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) territory (but the suggestion is not for the GWR franchise) at Bodmin Road, Totnes, and Crediton on the way to Okehampton. 

[broadgage]

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), converting an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to electric power at one end whilst keeping the existing diesel power car at the other end would only be viable if batteries were also fitted.

In diesel mode, acceleration would indeed be very limited and starting on inclines doubtful. If however a battery was fitted to the electric end and this battery was able to supply perhaps 2,500 HP for say 15 minutes then acceleration would be much improved and starting on inclines no worse than at present.

If the battery was able to supply 500 HP for say 100 minutes, that would preserve the "get you home" redundancy of an HST  in the event of the single diesel failing. Performance on only 500HP would be very limited, but far preferable to blocking a main line.

[onthecushions]

Noel Dolphin of Furrer and Frey has tweeted that OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") is now live to Maidenhead (March 26)

OTC

[TonyK]

Noel Dolphin of Furrer and Frey has tweeted that OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") is now live to Maidenhead (March 26)

OTC

Only a few more decades before it gets to Bristol, then.