Cross Country industrial action - August 2009 (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

The fact is.....yes my card maybe dodgy -  HOWEVER 99% of my travel is on a season which I dont use it for!

The rest I always buy on the train from a TM^‡(resolve) on a  walk on FC^‡(resolve) fare which it isnt valid for anyway.,

So guess what - if TM's actually followed the rules, I'd spend 26 quid and get no benefit - they dont.  I dont hide the fact but they still sell me it. 

Its not just FGW^▸ (First Great Western) - its all the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s I use - except cross country and the very very occasional arriva guard and 2 FGW TM's who I know by name and I dont bother to ask!.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Lets just move past that.... It's a valid point that there are thousands of people that are out of work and because of this working conditions in some jobs are poor and some people belive that strike action is there only hope... However in businesses offering a service that is essential to the country like rail and royal mail I wonder if it is a bit selfish or is it selfish of us to want a decent service and not care how staff are treated?

[Btline]

But I though you were allowed a Student railcard due to your OU stuff. Anyway, none of my business...

---------------

Anyway, this system for Sunday working needs to be changed! I remember a few years ago that ALL Central Trains' services were cancelled on a Sunday, because CT had a system where you could turn up if you wanted to, and on said day noone did! Can't it be done like many jobs where you get different days off each week so there's always the same staff everyday and everyone gets the same hours/pay?

[Mookiemoo]

I know some of the staff that are being made redundant, they don't earn as much in a month (including overtime) as you earn in two days.  You are talking about the real world - they are in it, and do not have the luxury of being able to negotiate on an individual basis, because they don't have a lot to negotiate with, or the knowledge or ability to do so - when you are on minimum wage or pretty damn close to it, you are even more replaceable.  They depend on the union to negotiate on their behalf.  The only thing they have that gives them any ability to try and get a decent wage and working conditions is the right to withhold their labour if they feel they are being sold down the river. They don't get the offer of bonus's equal or greater than their annual salary to "incentivise" them to do a good job, just the threat of dismissal if they don't, and even if they do a good job (and I was always impressed at how clean the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) trains were in Virgin days, and how active the cleaners were), they can still be screwed over anyway, as has just happened.

So if their efforts to keep their jobs, and their colleagues efforts to show solidarity with them causes you inconvenience, I'm deeply sorry that you are having to spend some of that ^560 a day on a taxi, but I'm saving my sympathy for the railway workers who don't earn that much in a fortnight.

You misunderstand - I would never get a taxi from the hol inn to tesco - id walk

I was just amused by the difference of a season ticket and a valid one off ticket when waling through a station

And yes, im lucky in what I do but I worked bloody hard to get there

How many people would swap the hours I do- leaving 0530 getting home 2230 or alternatively paying to live in temporary accomodation where you are working (which in thames valley is much more  than an FC^‡(resolve) monthly season ticket unless you want to live in shitsville!).  If I wasnt in debt due to an ex fiance and a dodgy accountant - I'd swap your job any day.  I havent done it but I've been spending 5 hours a day on a train most days for five years - I am under no illusion what a TM^‡(resolve)/guard has to put up with - I've seen it and can extrapolate to day in an day out.

With the pension, the holidays, sick pay etc etc - yeah - id swap tomorrow and id happily work sundays.

[Mookiemoo]

But I though you were allowed a Student railcard due to your OU stuff. Anyway, none of my business...

---------------

Anyway, this system for Sunday working needs to be changed! I remember a few years ago that ALL Central Trains' services were cancelled on a Sunday, because CT had a system where you could turn up if you wanted to, and on said day noone did! Can't it be done like many jobs where you get different days off each week so there's always the same staff everyday and everyone gets the same hours/pay?

Technically the OU is not allowed...its distance learning

If I turned up at a ticket office with a certificate from the OU saying I was a full time student - which I am - 120 credit a year - its not accepted for a rail card

BUT - I can get an ISIC card

Show up at a ticket office with an ISIC card -you get a rail card!

Loop hole!  Which falmingo has an issue with

[Btline]

Surely if you can get a ISIC card, then your entitlement to a RC is fine?

[Mookiemoo]

because they don't have a lot to negotiate with, or the knowledge or ability to do so - when you are on minimum wage or pretty damn close to it, you are even more replaceable.  They depend on the union to negotiate on their behalf. 

So because someone is not as valuable to the company they should be protected by others?

So they are thick and non-skilled (lack knowledge or ability) - great - you've just basically said RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) members are stupid - maybe I should not trust the driver or the TM^‡(resolve) when I get on the train on thursday.

[Mookiemoo]

Surely if you can get a ISIC card, then your entitlement to a RC is fine?

Thats my argument - but apparently not

[Mookiemoo]

Ok - this is how I justify it

"If you are 26 or over, you will need proof that you are a full-time student at a recognised educational establishment.  You must attend for over 15 hours a week and for at least 20 weeks a year.  You can either show an ISIC card (International Student Identity Card)or have the 'Mature Students Only' section of the application form completed and certified.  Because we need to see this proof, you must apply at a staffed station ticket office or rail appointed Travel Agent.  NUS cards will not be accepted as proof of age/educational status (Open University, distance learning and part-time courses do not qualify). "

You can get an OU NUS cad on 10 credit course lasting 4 weeks - I can see why an OU NUS card doesn't apply

HOwever - to get an ISIC card, you have to prove full time education - as well as being a project manager I do 120 credit uni level study a year - I am a full time student offcially.

Change the position of the OU disclaimer or accept - if you are full time student you qualify

[JayMac]

Whoa, whoa. What have YP railcard conditions got to do with AXC^» (Arriva Cross Country - about) industrial action? Can we please get back on topic?

[Mookiemoo]

Whoa, whoa. What have YP railcard conditions got to do with AXC^» (Arriva Cross Country - about) industrial action? Can we please get back on topic?

He started  it

[inspector_blakey]

Ladies and gentlemen,

At this point I'm going to step in and ask, politely, that the matter of the Y-P railcard be dropped. As bignosemac rightly pointed out, this thread is about action short of strike on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), please keep it that way.

Thanks everyone.

[TerminalJunkie]

You are Michael O'Leary and I claim my ^10! 

If that tenner's on the floor you're not allowed to pick it up

[JayMac]

You are Michael O'Leary and I claim my ^10! 

If that tenner's on the floor you're not allowed to pick it up

Still slighty off topic but made I laff

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

because they don't have a lot to negotiate with, or the knowledge or ability to do so - when you are on minimum wage or pretty damn close to it, you are even more replaceable.  They depend on the union to negotiate on their behalf. 

So because someone is not as valuable to the company they should be protected by others?

So they are thick and non-skilled (lack knowledge or ability) - great - you've just basically said RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) members are stupid - maybe I should not trust the driver or the TM^‡(resolve) when I get on the train on thursday.

Right, because there is obviously a distinct correlation between people who aren't necassarily the most vocal or skilled at presentation, argument or debating, and intelligence. Those geeky technical types who don't like socialising and have stunted conversations are obviously just really really stupid people, who yet somehow manage to grasp complex abstract concepts, despite being "dense"?

Fine, let's abolish solicitors full stop, and force people to represent themselves when going through divorce, lawsuits or criminal cases. If people then get screwed over, well who cares, they're only simpletons who deserve it after all.