Cross Country industrial action - August 2009 (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

So the stewards who serve food, who are supposed to adhere to strict hygene regulations, are now to clean the train as well? Does that not just sound a little bit iffy...

[readytostart]

Not been on for a while so struggled to find a specific post to reply to!
 TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) would find it hard to integrate Sundays into the working week, as it would be hard to fit it into a standard rest day pattern, with (as a rule) less services running on a Sunday due to the lack of a peak, and less revenue coming in due to the lack of peak time fares it would be hard to justify having the same number of traincrew turning out for duty as on a week day.

The way the system generally operates in 'peacetime' is that the company have enough staff willing to cover Sunday diagrams at a pro-rata rate of pay, with no more spares than is required to cover contingencies.

Going back to one of the original posters this is a matter of staff working and doing what they are paid to do, with no more, exposing the reliance on staff to work overtime and do extra duties.

From speaking to people I know locally who work for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) conditions have gradually worsened since Arriva were awarded the franchise, with an increasing focus on revenue at the detriment of customer service and common sense and also the removal of shop/buffets and the provision of a trolley instead. Its the alteration of aspects of someone's working day like this, all I'm led to believe contracted, that leads to fierce resistance to any additional duties placed upon them. How long would it be before a Retail Service Manager was disciplined for stock shortages because they left their trolley unattended to go pick litter? Or a Train Manager forgetting to offload a wheelchair passenger because in addition to safety critical, customer service and revenue duties they were expected to pick up the packet of crisps dropped on the floor at the other end of the train.

Now don't get me wrong, the vast majority of guards that I know do not mind popping things in the bin as they go or on a long stretch without any stops going through the train with a bin bag, it's not in our contract (well actually it is in mine for certain turn-back locations providing the company have provided said bags and protective gloves!), but to be expected to do it, on top of other duties on busy trains (and let's face it XC don't exaclty have a great deal of spare capacity) and then be potentially disciplined for not doing it would get me quite cross!

Right, rant over!

[Tim]

So the stewards who serve food, who are supposed to adhere to strict hygene regulations, are now to clean the train as well? Does that not just sound a little bit iffy...

No, they are not chefs, they are making tea and handing over sealed boxes of sarnies.  Lets not introduce a spurious health and safety issue into the arguement.

The point is that poorly paid staff are being asked to work harder for no extra pay.  That is unfair.

Privatisation does seem to have failed to improve relationships between management and staff.  I am not sure who should take the blame for this.  But it strikes me that if for example Starbucks asked their barristers to clear up rubbish when they had spare time they would just get on with it and it wouldn't even cross their mind to consider if that new responsibility was part of their contract or not or whethe ror not they would get disapplined for omiting to do it (is this good or bad- I'm not sure).

the other point I would make is that the recent rail satisfaction serveys have about 50% passenger satisfaction for onboard staff helpfulness and atitude for almost every TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) except for Grand Central and Marylebone and Shropshire whoa re at 80 or 90%.  maybe TOCs are just too big for every staff member to be happy and moptivated - I don't know

[smithy]

edited to add: Anybody you see out on trains on a Sunday is on overtime, and can refuse to work.  If everybody throws in their Sundays, the trains don't run that day, and the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) concerned has to pay a large amount in fines for cancelled trains, compensation to ticket holders, replacement taxi's - buses, and bad publicity in The Times etc.  Quite a threat, especially as it doesn't "cost" the staff anything.  There must be a lot of ill-feeling at XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) that it has come to that, and that staff are prepared to give up the overtime to protect the jobs of their colleagues.

My God, it's the 21st century, and yet it appears from this quote that a Sunday rail service is only run on the goodwill of the frontline staff.

Correct. What's your point?   

Umm.... my point is that Sundays should be part of contracted hours. Pay a bit more by all means...

So what is the deal with Sundays, do you get time off in lieu as well?

sunday is outside of the working week,you are rostered to work so many a month but can opt out if you wish to,if you work then it is time and a quarter.
it can be a good bargaining tool as central trains have proven in the past when no drivers turned up around new year time i believe it used to be a annual tradition for all drivers to have the same day off? ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC)) also did the same a few months back in a dispute over pay and conditions since arriva took over xc

[Tim]

I'm surprised that Starbucks ask their highly trained legal colleagues to clean tables, but then again, I supposed they can turn their hand to anything! 

touche

[Phil]

Having been on a management skills training course a couple of years ago with someone who worked for Starbucks, I can confirm that staff at ALL levels are expected to spend at least one day working at the sharp end. Pret a Manger actually insist on their management spending one day every year working in a shop, but Starbucks (at that time anyway) merely insisted on them having the one day of experience.

So, yes, it is entirely possible that Starbucks Barristers might be seen cleaning tables.

[devonian]

I have to say - I'm with Fallen ANgel on this one. Unions should be banned. As someone else who is self-employed, I have no sympathy with mass industrial action. I worked for a big multi-national and if I didn't like like what was thrown at me, they would have posted my job out to Bangalore, Gdansk or Manilla. If I wanted more money, I had to negotiate it myself and work bloody hard to get a bonus. I also faced redundancy because of outsourcing abroad to improve profit margins.

I also pay a ridiculous amout of NI for bugger all social security in return. Sick pay, unemployment, etc etc - all a dream. Holding a company and a region (well, with XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), several regions) to ransom is disgusting. WHy should the rest of us suffer because others don't like what they are being asked to do. And as for poorly paid - ok, I understand the safety element but please, the vast majority of rail staff are NOT poorly paid for what they do - and I base that on job ads I have seen on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s site.
Redundancy is a fact of commercial life.

[Mookiemoo]

Whatever 

Is that the best response you can come up with?

Shame

Maybe its a difference in ideology - socialism versus getting of your backside and doing the best you can and living with the consequences

[willc]

Well when all you rugged self-employed types have quite finished, if we all went self-employed to avoid overbearing employers (precisely the kind of organisations unions were set up to take on), then how exactly would firms like FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) function?

I can just hear the announcement now (or maybe we shouldn't, because an announcement would upset you all, wouldn't it?) "Sorry but the 6.43 from Hereford to London won't run today because the dynamic, thrusting individual contractor driver has withdrawn his labour as a negotiating tactic/has gone to work for someone else for more money."

There were countries where trade unions were banned and the trains ran on time - Nazi Germany and fascist Italy (though apparently Mussolini wasn't above a bit of timetable padding either).

Being a union member is as much anyone's right as it is yours to be self-employed  - and self-employed people can - and do - withdraw their labour as well, whatever fancy description you wish to give such situations. And no, I'm not a socialist, communist or any other sort of ist - I spent time in the Soviet Union in its dying years and find that kind of regime just as repugnant as fascism.

National Insurance is a plain old simple income tax - other countries don't bother with silly subterfuges like this but it suits UK^▸ (United Kingdom) politicians of whatever colour to pretend it's different when they are cooking the books at budget time.

[TerminalJunkie]

Unions should be banned.

Fine, so long as you also ban all other self-interest groups, like the RAC, the AA, the Conservative Party, Labour Party, Lib Dems, BNP^▸ (Barnstaple), UKIP, Round Table, Chambers of Commerce, the National Trust, RSPCA, NSPCC, Private Members Clubs, the WI, the Guilds, the GMC, the Bar Council, etc, etc...

[TerminalJunkie]

There were countries where trade unions were banned and the trains ran on time - Nazi Germany and fascist Italy (though apparently Mussolini wasn't above a bit of timetable padding either).

Actually Mussolini only made one train run on time, and that was before he became leader...

http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=3197#3197

[Mookiemoo]

Well when all you rugged self-employed types have quite finished, if we all went self-employed to avoid overbearing employers (precisely the kind of organisations unions were set up to take on), then how exactly would firms like FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) function?

I can just hear the announcement now (or maybe we shouldn't, because an announcement would upset you all, wouldn't it?) "Sorry but the 6.43 from Hereford to London won't run today because the dynamic, thrusting individual contractor driver has withdrawn his labour as a negotiating tactic/has gone to work for someone else for more money."

But we wouldnt all do it at the same time,

It is the mass withdrawal that is the issue

All you do is give FGW et al bad press - its us that suffer - and when you go back to work, I have no choice but to use FGW

I would love to see  mass walk out of project managers in SAP - we'd all be replaced in a week - so we dont

I see no reason why a train driver has more protection than we do when you get better conditions etc

You are only worth what you can deliver - if you are not worth top conditions, you dont get paid it - thats life

Everyone should have equal opportunity but not everyone is equal or should be rewARDED AS SUCH

[Mookiemoo]

Note - I was within two weeks of being out of work but proved myself worthy of an extension - I managed to secure myself work until the end of next year.

So im not talking from an ivory tower - how many of you work with two weeks notice over your head - if you are lucky!

[TerminalJunkie]

how many of you work with two weeks notice over your head

If you were in a decent union you probably wouldn't have to...

[willc]

But we wouldnt all do it at the same time

No, because then it might look like you were a union...

we'd all be replaced in a week

Are there really that many people out there with the necessary skills, available at the drop of a hat? Hmm.

And whether you like it or not, you are enjoying the benefits of union muscle every time you set foot on an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train, because the unions' threat of industrial action at the turn of 2007-8 and the refusal to work on rest days around Christmas and New Year were factors in persuading the company to recruit extra drivers and conductors to ensure its trains actually ran.

And the drivers get good pay and conditions precisely because of Aslef union officials being skillful at exploiting the break-up of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) into lots of operators, who all need drivers to run their trains and don't want to lose them to someone else. I think that's what's known as market forces, not socialism.