Rail fare prices - the basis of increases (merged ongoing discussion)

[whole diary]

[Tim]

I can't quite believe that the Minster would suggest such a move without speaking to the TOCS or ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) first, and surely they would have told her it was all too late.

The point that a big rise might lead to a revenue drop is one that I am sure that the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) will have thought about fully and if they didn't want to implement the full rise then surely they would have said so.

Sounds like Ms Greening has started to panic about the flack that will be coming her way over the fare increases and has paniced into making policy on the hoof.

[old original]

The new fares are already there eg. Super off peak single Truro - London up from^51 to ^55, CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) Truro - Falmouth ^3.70 - ^3.90

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm. 

But Justine Greening, the new Transport Secretary, has urged the Chancellor to announce a rethink in his Autumn Statement on Tuesday.

Depends when she 'urged the Chancellor': that could have been weeks ago - but the Independent may only now be reporting it?

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Chancellor George Osborne will unveil a new government scheme to underwrite at least ^10bn of loans to small businesses when he delivers his autumn statement on the economy on Tuesday.
...
Mr Osborne is also due to announce a cap on rises for regulated rail fares, such as peak fares and season tickets.

A planned rise of 8.2% - RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) inflation of 5.2% +3% - will be restricted to 6.2% (RPI +1%), with the cap also covering bus and tube fares in London.

The Association of Train Operating Companies described the plan as a "positive move" for passengers.

"Train companies are ready to work hard to ensure that a Government decision on fares is able to be implemented in time for the New Year," said a spokesman.

[eightf48544]

Something I think in Guardian 200m fares to be changed!

Knew  fares were in a mess but!

[JayMac]

Well my fears were wrong. I still wonder though how on earth ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) are going to get the new fares into the various systems by 5th December. Lots of furious recalculation to be done now. I bet the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) Fares Managers are delighted to be having to do all the work a second time. 

NFM11 could well be late.

From the Sunday Express:

FARE RISE RELIEF FOR RAIL COMMUTERS

RAIL fares will be capped next year saving season ticket holders up to ^140.

Commuters had been braced for eye- watering eight per cent increases after Chancellor George Osborne last year said regulated fares would rise by inflation, (which hit 5.2 per cent in August), plus three per cent.

After fears that outraged travellers would be driven off the railways to clog crowded roads, he will now rein back the rise on season tickets and peak fares to inflation plus one per cent.

It will knock ^90 off the feared ^369 rise on the average annual ^4,500 season ticket.

It means commuters from Swindon to London, who faced paying an extra ^562, will save ^140.

Mr Osborne is expected to announce the decision, which will help up to 500,000 rail users, in an otherwise bleak Autumn Statement on Tuesday.

It follows strong hints from David Cameron that the planned three pence petrol tax rise in January is also to be scrapped.

Transport for London will also have to limit its ticket rises from planned inflation plus two per cent down to inflation plus one per cent.

A Treasury source said the Chancellor recognised the pressure commuters were under and wanted to ease the burden on workers.

However, passengers will still face bigger rail rises in 2013 and 2014 with plans to return to inflation plus three per cent, though economic forecasts suggest that inflation will begin to fall again next year.

[super tm]

The new fares are already there eg. Super off peak single Truro - London up from^51 to ^55, CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) Truro - Falmouth ^3.70 - ^3.90

Those are both unregulated fares so could stay the same.  Its the regulated fares such as season tickets, SDR and SSR which will need changing.

[RailCornwall]

No real sympathy, resetting fares should by now be a case of inserting the appropriate increase/decrease of the triggered regulated fare value into software once per TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company). The result then being propogated where needed automatically within the second.

[Brucey]

But where fares have been calculated as a "basket", a much more complicated algorithm would be needed to adjust each individual fare.

[eightf48544]

I don't feel sorry for the TOCS having to make these last minute changes after all they've been making the fare system so incrediably complicated over the years they've only got themselves to blame.

Maybe they'll see sense and start rationalising their fares and an asociated restrictions etc so that you don't need a Phd in the fare manual, route map etc to get a resonable fare from A to Z without splitting your journey at every stop and travelling on the one train a day without restrictions. 

[Btline]

Finally a bit of sense. Then again, 6% increases are still eyewatering in these credit crunch times...

[inspector_blakey]

I don't feel sorry for the TOCS having to make these last minute changes after all they've been making the fare system so incrediably complicated over the years they've only got themselves to blame.

Maybe they'll see sense and start rationalising their fares and an asociated restrictions etc so that you don't need a Phd in the fare manual, route map etc to get a resonable fare from A to Z without splitting your journey at every stop and travelling on the one train a day without restrictions. 

I know things have got worse since privatization, but the implication of your post (that the system inherited from BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) was a model of simplicity) really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Plenty of the weird anomalies that apply today date back directly to British Rail, for example split CDRs^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) being cheaper than an SVR over the same route, fares in the Network Railcard area often being cheaper than elsewhere etc etc.

[Tim]

Plenty of the weird anomalies that apply today date back directly to British Rail

True,  But the price rises since then have made the anomalies more acute.  Anomalies that were a few quid here of there were fine.   

I know that many people think that the anomalies need to be dealt with by simplification and I don't disagree, but if you reduced the price of  some of the very high fares fewer people would seek out and use the anomalies and the  customers and TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) alike would be far less forried about them.

[EBrown]

RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 1% was announced today, so you were right!

[JayMac]

Now we just wait until next week (5th Dec) to see whether or not ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) and the individual TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) can get all the new fares data into all the systems.

Busy weekend I suspect......