Journey times between London and Bristol were shorter 20/30 years ago!

[whole diary]

[XPT]

Have a look at this timetable from 1990.



Of particular interest are the Mondays-Fridays 0740 Bristol Temple Meads-London service, which calls only at Bristol Parkway, Swindon and London Paddington. Journey time just 1 hour 24 minutes. Another service from Temple Meads just 5 minutes later calling only Bath Spa, Chippenham and London Padd. Journey time just 1 hour 23 minutes. That's a good 15 minutes shorter than services nowadays!Another services from Bristol Parkway(from Swansea) at 0802 running non-stop to London Padd. Journey time just 1 hour 11 minutes!   Which is a good 10 minutes shorter than nowadays.

These shorter journey times existed in the late 1970's too.    It's a shame we don't get these true express services nowadays.   As it seems the Bristol, Bath, Chippenham, Swindon, Didcot Parkway(some services), Reading, London Paddington stopping pattern is here to stay now.  Even when the electric trains take over from the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s in 2016/2017, journey times may still not be as short as they were all those years ago!

[grahame]

Hi, XPT and welcome to the forum.   I'll leave others to comment on whether regularity or occasional fast trains out of sequence are important to them (I think you'll find a hot discussion on the Cotswold line section about that!).

For my (personal) part, I notice the 08:32 commuter arrival at Swindon for passengers from West Wilts (Frome, Westbury, Trowbridge and Melksham) which was match by a return service (as I recall) at 17:33 or possibly a few minutes later.  Those are really sensible commuter times on what is listed as one of the top commuter flows (I think it was a top 50 list) ... which has now been degraded to a Swindon arrival of 07:48, and a departure of 18:45, lengthing the commuter's day by over 110 minutes in the last 19 years.

Are you a Bristol / Bath / Chippenham / Swindon -> London regular?

[XPT]

Thanks for the welcome Grahame.  Great forums by the way!  Wish I'd have found these ages ago!  I'm not really a regular between Bristol and London nowadays.  But I used to be a few years back.

I find the old timetables very interesting.    What with all the variation in stopping patterns on London-Bristol(and vice versa) services, and the somewhat shorter journey times compared to nowadays.  I do think that they could run some services nowadays which are more limited stop and offer faster journey times.  However, I can understand the downside to this in that the "clockface" timetable would be messed up a bit at certain times of the day at some stations.  And that people in places like Swindon and Chippenham would lose the odd service here and there.

It is ironic though that journey times were faster some 30 years ago than they are now.  I wonder if when the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification project is completed and when the new electric train services begin, whether we will have journey times as good as or better than 1 hour 24 minutes Bristol TM^‡(resolve)-London?  This may not be quite possible if the familiar Bath, Chippenham, Swindon, Reading stopping patterns are still adhered to.      With the increased performance of these trains and 140mph line speeds, it may for example be possible for a journey between London Padd to Bristol Parkway of around 55 minutes if the trains were to run nonstop.  But we'll have to wait and see, only another seven or eight years to wait!

There's another interesting service to note from the 1990 timetable.   An 1845 London Padd-BristoL TM service calling Reading, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, Bristol TM - arriving  Bristol 2029.  And just two minutes later at 1847, another service for Bristol TM departs, calling at Reading, Swindon, Bath Spa, Bristol TM - arriving 2047.  You just don't get timetabling like this anymore on London-Bristol services.

I did travel onboard an interesting scheduled service early last year though.  Seemed to be an extra service operating for several Sundays from Bristol-London(originating from Plymouth).  Departing Bristol TM at 2024, and booked to call at Reading and London Paddington only via the usual route.    It was quite a novelty to be whizzing past Bath, Chippenham and Swindon without stopping!   The one hour non-stop journey between Bristol and Reading made it feel much more of a true express service, than the typical services we get now.    Though journey time to London was about 1 hour 45 minutes due to a booked slower journey time between Reading and London Paddington.

By the way, you were close at remembering the depart time for the evening Trans Wilst service.  It departed Swindon at 1731.

[Btline]

It looks like the 6.32 departure from Hereford, changing at Newport and arriving at 9.13 is quicker than the current Cotswold "express" services!

The fact is, these expresses are needed! How many hours have these commuters wasted over the years as slower schedules have crept in?

By all means have a regular off peak clockface. But during the peaks, have faster services.

VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) have a morning peak service from Wolverhampton that runs non stop from New Street. It is followed closely by a train from B'ham International, which picks up from Coventry and Rugby.

Result? - Wolverhampton, Dudley and Birmingham get a fast service, at no loss to other stations (unless you're travelling from Dudley to Coventry - unlikely)

[XPT]

Agreed  BTline.   They could have some extra limited stop services running at peak times, which wouldn't damage the clockface timetable.   I know timetable planning is a very complicated procedure(especially when there are numerous other services operating using the same line/s).  But it should be possible with a bit of careful planning.

In the 1990 timetable there was a 1800 service from London Padd-Swansea, called The Red Dragon Pullman.  It would run non-stop to Bristol Parkway with a journey time of just 1 hour 9 minutes.  When I posted this info on another forum, someone informed me that this train would in fact usually arrive at Bristol PW^▸ (Permanent Way) approx 9 minutes early.  Journey time just 1 hour!   That's getting on for nearly 50% quicker than the shortest journey times between London Padd & Bristol PW nowadays(1 hour 21 minutes).  Back in 1978, similar journey times were commonplace too.

[Mookiemoo]

It looks like the 6.32 departure from Hereford, changing at Newport and arriving at 9.13 is quicker than the current Cotswold "express" services!

It is

But you pay ^170 for the journey (first - no idea of the SC) - I think - I dont often pay that since via evesham is about ^100.

i just wish there was an earlier train from shrewsbury - ie. make it earlier via ludlow so those north of 'ereford could take advatage.  the first Train I can get from ludlow via newport gets me to paddington for 10am ish

Hence the reason I normally drive 50 miles a day round trip to WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) - if there was a season - lud to RDG^‡(resolve) via NWP I'g prob pay it to save the time and the diesel

[willc]

I could have sworn you keep telling us these expresses are needed by businessmen from Worcester, not frightful commuters getting on in the Cotswolds. Make your mind up.

It's precisely because of the growth in commuting from places like Bath, Chippenham, Swindon, Didcot and the Cotswolds over the past 30 years or so (ie post-introduction of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and quicker journeys - and if anyone says padding, remember that a fast diesel loco-hauled run to Plymouth used to be four hours) and the development of Reading as a key employment centre that the extra stops have gone in - the world has changed, because the HST changed intercity routes into commuter ones.

That's why you don't get timetabling like 1990 any more - you get Bristol and Cardiff services every 30 minutes instead - and there are a hell of lot more trains trying to get between Reading and Paddington, all day, every day.

There's nothing new about Hereford (and Ludlow, Craven Arms and Church Stretton) via Newport being quicker - it always was, once you combined HSTs to South Wales with 158s on the North & West, even when there was a 2hr 50min run via Worcester.

And will you please drop this nonsense about that Virgin train - one a day each way, five days a week. So what? Utterly irrelevant headline timings for advertising purposes, saving about 11 minutes between Wolverhampton and London compared with almost every other service all day. It's about two minutes quicker than first going north to Stafford, then changing on to some London trains there.

[Mookiemoo]

[quote author=willc link=topic=5149.msg48053#msg48053 date=1249948730

There's nothing new about Hereford (and Ludlow, Craven Arms and Church Stretton) via Newport being quicker - it always was, once you combined HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to South Wales with 158s on the North & West, even when there was a 2hr 50min run via Worcester
[/quote]

Never said there was - just its got slower as well

And the price differential is ridiculous.

X to Y via a sensible route should be the same price.  i.e, not LUD to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) via manchester - but LUD to PAD via evesham or NWP should be the same - both are sensible routes

[stebbo]

I've just posted on non-stop services (as used to be) elsewhere on this site, so I'll refrain from detailed comment except to say that I agree with the opening sentiment to this thread.