Penzance - Plymouth journey time

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

0730 Paddington Penzance is always well loaded.

[old original]

0730 Paddington Penzance is always well loaded.

...too true, especially considering it's a "peak" service"

[woody]

First flight from Gatwick arrives in Plymouth at 10.10 and from London city at 10.35 well before the first Paddington train,the 07.30 departure which arrives in Plymouth at a lousy 11.15 ish.

The 06:45 from Paddington gets you to Plymouth at 10:48, with just a single change at Temple Meads.   I expect the problem with an earlier direct Plymouth (say an 06:30 from Paddington) is that you would need an extra 125 to run it ... and that would be contra-flow, so would be very expensive.  It couldn't really bring a train load of commuters in first from Oxford / Didcot / Reading.

I doubt a 4 hour rail journey involving a change at Temple Meads can now even begin to compete with the 70 minute direct Air South alternative from London city to Plymouth from a business travel point of view even when you factor in the additional airport check-in times etc.Which is why air links to London are now viewed as vital to the far South Wests economic well being in this neck of the woods.Unfortunately distance and rail infrastructure limitations have conspired against the railways in this particular market,something the Great Western RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) seems to have recognised.

[JayMac]

First flight from Gatwick arrives in Plymouth at 10.10 and from London city at 10.35 well before the first Paddington train,the 07.30 departure which arrives in Plymouth at a lousy 11.15 ish.

The 06:45 from Paddington gets you to Plymouth at 10:48, with just a single change at Temple Meads.   I expect the problem with an earlier direct Plymouth (say an 06:30 from Paddington) is that you would need an extra 125 to run it ... and that would be contra-flow, so would be very expensive.  It couldn't really bring a train load of commuters in first from Oxford / Didcot / Reading.

I doubt a 4 hour rail journey involving a change at Temple Meads can now even begin to compete with the 70 minute direct Air South West alternative from London city to Plymouth from a business travel point of view even when you factor in the additional airport check-in times etc. Which is why air links to London are now viewed as vital to the far South Wests economic well being in this neck of the woods.Unfortunately distance and rail infrastructure limitations have conspired against the railways in this particular market, something the Great Western RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) seems to have recognised.

I wouldn't call one plane against one train a market. The 50 seat plane may well suit a few business people, but the railway is an inclusive form of travel which offers far greater flexibility, choice and comfort. I doubt very much that ferrying a few business types to and from Plymouth (or less likely Newquay) makes a great deal of difference to the GDP of Devon and Cornwall. However I'll concede it may make a difference to the individual business person. The plane offers an alternative when it is needed for those few people who are cash rich but time poor. I agree that the aeroplanes win hands down when it comes to speed on this particular journey, but there is more, much more, to a journey than just speed. I'm firmly of the opinion that the less short-haul domestic flghts we have the better.

I'm also a lot more likely to survive if both engines fail on my HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Plymouth

[inspector_blakey]

If you take the Night Riviera you can get to Plymouth nice and early. Some might say unpleasantly early, in fact, seeing as it sets down Plymouth at 0535. But you'd be in plenty of time for your meeting...

[woody]

I think one or two people here aught to speak to the Devon and Cornwall business council on the matter and come in to the real world.Personally I prefer rail over air any time but I also recognise that rail like any form of transport has its limitations in certain areas.

[JayMac]

I think one or two people here aught to speak to the Devon and Cornwall business council on the matter and come in to the real world.Personally I prefer rail over air any time but I also recognise that rail like any form of transport has its limitations in certain areas.

So, being a defender of rail transport on a rail forum, means I don't live in the real world? I would love to see what DCBC have to say on transport matters, however the only item I could find on their website relating to transport('D.C.B.C. response to Regional Select Commitee on Transport Infrastructure') was a dead link.

Woody, if you have some links from Business groups in the southwest and their comments/consultations, I'll gladly read them. I would love to know what Plymouth business folk think of their 3 flights to London and 4 indirect flights to Surrey.......

[devon_metro]

Presumably air travel doesn't work on a turn up and go scheme, which is of course the massive benefit of rail travel.

[vacman]

I fail to see the problem here? there are around 4 flights a day in each direction with planes that are little more than light aircraft with propellers, they seat around 50 people..less than a single 153, so no real threat at all.

There are 10 direct trains from Padd to Penzance and at least 14 to Plymouth on a week day, you can turn up at the station now at Super off-peak time and get a walk up single for ^41.50 from Padd to Penzance, not on the plane though!

Oh, one interesting thing, from Dec there is a 0706 Padd-Ply via the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury)!

[DevonTrains2008]

Noticed today as I exited the circle line at Paddington underground station for the 1405 Padd/penzance several large Air South West posters on the tunnel walkway walls exclaiming London to Plymouth in only 70 minutes and Cornwall in under 2 hours! clearly now targeting rail passengers.Given the very low line speeds in the far south west what do you think the future holds in these parts for FGWs^▸ (First Great Western) competing services.

There is a large advert for Air South West I noticed today between TVP - EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) saying 'You'd Be There By Now'.  I hardly think that seeing as it would mean transfering city centre - airport, allowing hours for check - in, an hour in the air, collecting baggage and then transfering to the city centre from airport at the other end.  Also, it was not very convenient for me as I was travelling Reading - Exeter St D anyway!

[woody]

I am merely trying to show that Air South west exists by filling a gap in the market place that rail cannot fill at the moment.I am not pro air and want to see our rail links prosper even if that means ruffling a few feathers along the way by highlighting that fact.
Vacman says from Dec there is a 0706 Padd-Ply via the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury)! are you sure its not on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or National Raail journey planner.Would be great if it were true.

[RailCornwall]

The real attractive flights are into LCY where the check in and exit from the airport are less than 30mins and the onward connections to central London are ultra rapid DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) - Canning Town - 6 mins - on the Jubilee Line then to all the major areas in the Capital. A minor disadvantage being NQY^▸ (Newquay (Station)) and PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) airports but they are both improving now. It's a real alternative for the BUSINESS traveller.

[Btline]

Until the journey times are improved by removing stops and/or raising line speeds and electrifying, there will always be a need for a quick, affordable journey for business travellers.

If these adverts encourage TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to cut slack and improve journey times as much as possible on existing infrastructure, then good!

[Zoe]

Oh, one interesting thing, from Dec there is a 0706 Padd-Ply via the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury)!

It's not showing in the journey planners and in the Great Western RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) it was concluded that the business case for an earlier arrival into Plymouth was poor value for money.

[Henry]

 I sometimes wonder if their is a 'business case' for an ealier train from Bristol/Exeter/Newton Abbot/Plymouth.

 Quite a few times standing on a busy platform at Newton Abbot waiting for the late running Bristol/Penzance 0730 in the morning.
 The howls of derision when a solitary 153 comes into view, knowing that we are going to lose even more time because of the bikes at Totnes.
 Fortunately my timetable is pretty flexible and I am quoting the worse case scenario.
 But surely their must be a case for a train that gets to Plymouth before 0800 in the morning ?