Bristol connections: Metro, Bus Rapid Transit, PTE, ITA and local councils - discussion

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

113,000 is about 300 a day. Surely a properly timed frequent bus with links to Avonmouth, P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) and the mass of employers currently not served by anything would be cheaper than maintaining the branch and benefit more people.

And the four-fold increase in passengers will be happy to go back to a bus and change at Avonmouth will they? I suspect they will drift away from the rail option altogether.

A direct train, versus a bus+change to get into Clifton/city centre or making onward rail connections at Temple Meads? There are reasons why the former bus link to Severn Beach from Avonmouth was so poorly patronised - connections weren't robust, commuting cyclists were unable to use the service, family groups with pushchairs were inconvenienced and if one or other of the train or bus was subject to delays/cancellations then the journey to/from Severn Beach was impossible.

Should there be a bus service between Avonmouth and Severn Beach to serve all the large employers in the area? Possibly. But not at the expense of the train service.

[TonyK]

bignosemac, I'm with you all the way on this one. Until the railway came by, in a move intended only to link Avonmouth to Pilning, Severn Beach was a farm, and nothing else. It is a village that exists only because of the railway, so is owed something by that railway. A lady of tender years tells me that in her youth, the churches of Bishopston and surrounds used to have a joint Sunday School outing there each year, leading to hundreds of excited children boarding 12-carriage trains at Montpelier. Happy days!

You can travel by bus from Severn Beach to Bristol. There is one each way daily, journey time scheduled at 1hr 3min, cost ^7.50 return. The earliest arrival into Bristol is 8.30 am, traffic permitting. A second bus goes via Westbury on Trym, where one could change for a service to Bristol.

The train runs 11 times each way, takes 41 minutes to Temple Meads, costs ^3 return, and the first one arrives before 7 am. If the passing of the railway close by sparked development, in 1922, that at one time included an open-air swimming pool, a boating lake, and a "club", then a robust rail service with commitment for the future could pave the way very quickly to further development. Running trains regularly to SVB may not be lucrative, but could serve to prove that infrastructure can lead to improvement in an area.

For the Metro, with a half-hourly service to SVB envisaged, this bit of the line will be a challenge, but not a big one. The way the lines are laid out from Avonmouth makes it a single track to all intents and purposes. I don't know what work would be needed to make it double as far as the junction towards Henbury, but I doubt it would be worth it. It is about 10 minutes each way from Avonmouth, so single line working with a 10-minute turnaround at SVB will work. Bringing the Clifton Down points back to Montpelier, and maybe the Avonmouth points back to near Sea Mills would be a much more effective use of redoubling money, should any exist.

So hands off the Severn Beach line, JaminBob. It provides a valuable public service, something in short supply these days, almost pays for itself, if only because of the traffic from the other stations on the line, and may yet serve as a valuable experiment into town and country planning.

[dog box]

the line beyond Avonmouth provides a valuable service to an area badly served by other public transport, St Andrews Road has a much increased footfall of workers making there way to work on the local industrial estates , and its now not unsual to have 30 people waiting to join the Train at Severn Beach...

[TonyK]

I hate to follow my own posts, but as I am the only one around here who cares, then I shall have to [/bitter sulkiness]

News posted elsewhere appears to herald the reopening of not only Portishead, but also Henbury.

From Business West:

THE ^100-million Bristol Metro train network which will bring massive improvements to local railways is to go ahead with the first services running by 2016.
It comes as a result of the City Deal agreed between local council and the Government which was announced yesterday by Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. It will mean the line to Portishead being re-opened and trains running to the town again within four years. The Henbury line will also re-open in 2018 as part of the plans. The list of new and re-opened stations include:
 Ashton Gate
^ Horfield
^ Ashley Hill
^ Saltford
^ and Henbury

They will form part of a local rail network that supporters hope will see trains running every half an hour.


The dramatic improvements are part of the ^1 billion deal, which the Post revealed yesterday, and which was confirmed by treasury minister Danny Alexander on a visit to Bristol.


The City Deal has been agreed between Westminster and councils in Bristol and the surrounding area which promises to revolutionise the way the area is run.
The plans also include the re-opening of the so-called Henbury Loop in north Bristol.


The fine details of the deal, which will see money raised in parts of the city through business rates kept in Bristol, were still being worked on as late as Wednesday night.


Mr Alexander claimed the deal represents a revolution in the way the city is run and financed and will see power shifted back from Westminster to the West Country.


The minister said: "Local leaders and strong leadership are essential to the future prosperity of Britain's cities. These new powers will allow Bristol and the surrounding area to decide its own priorities for local public transport and flexibility on skills training ^ benefiting both employers and young people.
"By allowing Bristol to keep the business rates growth in its Enterprise Areas, this deal will support up to ^1 billion of investment locally.
"This unique deal will hugely benefit ordinary people and businesses in Bristol. It also marks an important step in Government's commitment to decentralise power and re-balance local economies."


The Enterprise Zone set up around Temple Meads station is set to be at the centre of economic growth for the city. All the money raised in the area in business rates will be kept in the city to fund major public projects and improvements to the road network in the city centre.


Talks are taking place to bring the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) to the Enterprise Zone and to build a 12,000-seat indoor arena on vacant land close to the station.
Around ^500 million would be raised but the four local authorities in the region have been given permission to raise loans against the expected revenue with immediate effect.


Mr Alexander believes the City Deal and Bristol's decision to opt for an elected mayor will give it a major advantage over other regional rivals. He said: "What we are doing is giving Bristol the chance to shape its own destiny, and an elected mayor will certainly help in shaping that process. This is a deal and of course we expect something in return in terms of jobs and economic growth but what we are doing is putting the building blocks in place for the future of Bristol and the region."

Seems Britol's decision to vote for a mayor may have helped this along enormously. Did anyone see that happening? (Ahem...)

[ellendune]

What did the GW^▸ (Great Western) ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) say about operating a re-opened Portishead Branch?

[TonyK]

What did the GW^▸ (Great Western) ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) say about operating a re-opened Portishead Branch?

Ellendune,

Thanks for joining in! The Invitation to Tender says as follows:

4.11.5.5 Option GW 5 -Bristol Metro Phase 1
Local commuter services around Bristol have experienced extremely high growth in recent years, fuelled by changing employment patterns including the developments around Bristol Temple Meads and Filton Abbey Wood, which are set to continue. The local authority has provided support to improve services on the Severn Beach line and extra capacity has also been funded by the Government through its recent HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification) agreement with the current Franchisee.
Bristol Metro is an advanced scheme developed by the West of England Partnership with considerable public and political support, and accounted for one third of responses to the Department^s Great Western Franchise Consultation.
Both the Greater Bristol Metro and Portishead line were identified in the West of England Partnership^s Joint Local Transport Plan 3 2011 to 2026 as future priority schemes for capital funding. Subject to future major transport scheme funding allocations and a new prioritisation process the West of England Partnership will confirm its support for funding the Greater Bristol Metro in September 2012. The West of England Partnership^s Joint Transport Executive Committee formally resolved at its meeting on 19 June 2012 that it will be willing to take up ^priced options^ for the Greater Bristol Metro subject to the prices being reasonable and acceptable.
This priced option is for Phase 1 of the project and requires the provision of the following specification for 18 hours per day Monday to Saturday and 9 hours per day on Sunday:
Severn Beach ^ Bath Spa: one train per hour from Severn Beach to Bath Spa (calling at all stations). This provides an additional hourly service between Bath and Bristol & therefore two trains per hour overall at Keynsham and Oldfield Park;
Severn Beach ^ Portishead: one train per hour from Severn Beach to Portishead (calling at all stations); and
Portishead ^ Bristol Temple Meads: one train per hour from Bristol Temple Meads to Portishead (calling at all stations). This provides two trains per hour service on Portishead line in combination with the Severn Beach ^ Portishead service above.
Assumed start date: December 2017.
Weighting: 75%

Maybe someone can explain the "priced option" to me - who pays whom with what and when (forget why - doesn't matter). It looks from this as though the West of England Partnership will commission and subsidise the services, although elsewhere, I have read that from 2015, national frameworks take over funding for the SVB. That would be revenue-neutral now with "smart" ticketing, or even just reasonably sensible ticketing. I'm guessing that the WEP will therefore be funding the whole Metro concept, as a ticket covering train and bus for one price won't generate the same as the current ^3.00 return to Severn Beach plus the ridiculous ^2.30 single fare for the three stops on the bus to Arnos Vale. They will need to know how much the rail company and the bus companies will want.

I could be barking up the wrong gumtree there, though.

Interestingly, when I wrote to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to give my views on the franchise during the consultaion, I had no idea that someone would actually read my letter. Seems I was wrong! Power to the people!

[mfpa]

Abbey Wood may be the tricky one. There were certainly four tracks to Filton when I first moved to Bristol in the late 70s. Of course, Abbey Wood station wasn't there then, and IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), the tracks diverged at the old Filton station, with two heading for Wales, and two for Parkway.Now, with the three platforms at Abbey Wood, it may still be possible to put a fourth line to the very west, without a platform, but whether the benefit will outweigh the cost is another matter. With four stations between BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) and Abbey Wood, however, it will still be viable to four-track to Horfield

Why could they not put a fourth line to the east, between platform 1 and the footpath/cyclepath? I would have thought the space was there, even if it needed a lot of groundwork and would require a footbridge from platform 1 to the MOD exit.

[Bristolboy]

Interesting to note that the station at the portway park and ride has been given the formal go ahead by the local council:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Station-plan-park-ride/story-17039468-detail/story.html

[Bristolboy]

Some more opinion pieces on improving transport as mentioned in the local press:

http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/Proposed-arena-makes-line-station-upgrades-vital/story-17049957-detail/story.html

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Promise-money-improve-trains/story-17060065-detail/story.html

Apologies if you think I am spamming, however, I know that many local news sites only write articles on subjects which will get sufficient page views, so increasing the visibility of positive bristol railway articles has got to be a good thing.  This is  especially as local news sites such as this can sometimes form local opinion and therefore the opinions of politicians.

[grahame]

Why not quote a sentence or two to wet our appetites, rather than just a blind link?  - see what I have done [here] for example.  And add your own view. Thanks 

[Bristolboy]

Why not quote a sentence or two to wet our appetites, rather than just a blind link?  - see what I have done [here] for example.  And add your own view. Thanks 

Grahame I will try to in future, although it can be somewhat difficult on my old phone.

[swrural]

I have taken the liberty to open this topic heading as the other reinstatement threads have their own right to existence (Portishead, Henbury loop, re-opened suburban stations, etc) but the issue of the redevelopment of Temple Meads area is one which stands over-arching as regards transport integration and separate as regards to what should be desirable in this formerly marshy area of Bristol.

The SoS paid a visit a day or so ago and was fulsome in his enthusiasm - it was all 'fantastic', especially the re-opening of what an old codger like me knows as platforms 12 to 15.      - the old Brunel and Digby trainshed.

Someone commented to the local paper that there was a problem about starting trains from there to London via Bath as they would have to cross over lots of lines to take the Bath line.  It was pointed out that of the 4 per hour, two would go via Parkway and two via Bath.  So only two would need to do this, in each direction of course.

This frequency is not one so demanding of signalling of conflicting movements as the situations on the Southern lines into the multiple London terminals, with a train every few minutes, but it was a fair point to raise.  If the connecting local transport such as BRT^▸ (Bus Rapid Transit) is to make a seamless connection at TM^‡(resolve), then it is undesirable to force passengers to walk a great distance under subways in order to catch a train from near the ruined Post Office site, albeit that the plans are also to redevelop what I know as the Cattle Market area, even if the Bath routed trains could operationally better terminate on that side.

We certainly would not want to reach a state such as at Lulsgate, which often demands that one has to practically walk halfway to Clevedon to reach one's plane through the new dismal and seemingly endless passageway.

I do hope the Inspector on the BRT scheme takes up the issue of making the guided bus call nearer to the Digby shed than is presently shewn in the plans.  Perhaps it should skirt the offices next to the Floating Harbour rather than Temple Way.

Have others thoughts or further info on this?

[paul7575]

Someone commented to the local paper that there was a problem about starting trains from there to London via Bath as they would have to cross over lots of lines to take the Bath line.  It was pointed out that of the 4 per hour, two would go via Parkway and two via Bath.  So only two would need to do this, in each direction of course.

However, there may be another errroneous assumption there anyway, because to run a reliable 4 tph service with normal lengths of layover at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) I'd expect that only the 2 trains per hour running via Parkway will actually use the reopened platforms, and the trains that run via Bath will likely remain on the other side of the station.   

Yes, that would mean that passengers will end up with having to choose which part of the station to go to for their train, but if as I suspect the Parkway route will always be faster, only people specifically wanting Bath will go that way.

Paul

[JayMac]

only people specifically wanting Bath will go that way.

And Chippenham, which will in turn have it's numerous connections to Melksham. 

[swrural]

I like the idea of passengers choosing trains for London , depending on which side of the station it departs from!

I assume this would only happen where the Badminton route always got you there after the Chippenham route even if the Parkway departed 15 minutes later. 

One could envisage frantic dashes from one side of the station to the other ( no I don't!!).

I understand Weston is to get a few through services with those appalling bi-modal contraptions. 

I don't actually believe that the new services will do anything other than depart from platform 14 and 15 (old money) or Platform 3 (9 in old money).

South Wales Junction is not Borough Market!!