Bristol connections: Metro, Bus Rapid Transit, PTE, ITA and local councils - discussion

[whole diary]

[trainer]

... you'd need to overcome a considerable gradient to reach the airport at 622 feet above sea level within a very constrained route. 

Never stopped the Swiss.  All we have to decide is Abt, Riggenbach or Strub* rack system. (I can have flights of fancy as good as anyone.  )

*Other systems are available

[grahame]

We already have an underused railway line (the one to Weston super Mare) and the missing track between Blackwell and the airport can be as short as 3 miles. so whats the problem?

Two things: it's Backwell, not Blackwell; and you'd need to overcome a considerable gradient to reach the airport at 622 feet above sea level within a very constrained route. 

Gradient would be 1 in 29 ... same as Blackfriars to London City Link.   But that's all the way.     Not the most likely solution, but I suspect it could be done on adhesion with the right stock.

[Chris from Nailsea]

I'd be really interested to see a proposal for any realistic heavy rail, or indeed tram, route covering just three miles between Nailsea & Backwell Station and Bristol Airport. 

[johnneyw]

The article seems to include the possibility of a tram route following the course of the A Road if I've read it right. That would cost a bit. Perhaps the airport, who will financially benefit, should chip into the cost of any preferred option. Mind you, I'm talking as if there was any real chance of this happening.

[Noggin]

The article seems to include the possibility of a tram route following the course of the A Road if I've read it right. That would cost a bit. Perhaps the airport, who will financially benefit, should chip into the cost of any preferred option. Mind you, I'm talking as if there was any real chance of this happening.

Of course it could be one of those exercises where you go through the motions to get the answer that you want (i.e. that trams are too expensive unless they are paid for by Westminster), a bit like the report on whether MetroWest should be electrified with local money. 

It's not inconceivable though that it might suggest that the Bus Rapid Transit could be built to the airport, and that it should have a nice shiny new road through the fields as the A38 is too congested.

[johnneyw]

Another Metrobust, to the airport? That sent a cold shiver down my spine!

[chuffed]

Now that Hinkley looks like going ahead , couldn't we ask the Chinese for some new shiny trams in a rather tasteful shade of fluorescent green, with orange uranium trim ?

[grahame]

Now that Hinkley looks like going ahead , couldn't we ask the Chinese for some new shiny trams in a rather tasteful shade of fluorescent green, with orange uranium trim ?

Might the natural route for a rail link to Lulsgate Airport might now be south-facing - a somewhat longer (so less steeply graded) one through open countryside to Worle or Yatton, with direct train services every 30 minutes to Weston-super-mare, Bridgwater and Taunton.   With the local train that terminates at Weston from Bristol extended on to Taunton too, that gives a half-hourly service to each of Lulsgate and Temple Meads from Bridgwater, and a much improved Weston - Bridgewater service to tap in on the employment and accommodation pool in Weston for Hinkley.     Passengers landing at Lulsgate for Bristol City Centre would have an easy change at Worle which already has a wheelchair friendly bridge, and if Cross Country stopped at Worle too that would give the airport easy links to the Cheltenham Spa area,  and Taunton and west, with a single change and without the need to use the congested space from the airport down the hill into Bristol.   Written tongue in cheek ... yet the more I write ... 

[Bmblbzzz]

Passengers landing at Lulsgate for Bristol City Centre currently have a bus service every 15 minutes, and the bus station is more central than Temple Meads, too. In fact it's a better service than many of the Bristol urban routes. So the only benefit I see from a train between BRS^▸ (Business Rates Supplement) and BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) would be if it were very much quicker or cheaper, and I doubt if either of those would be the case, particularly if it started off heading south. Of course not all air passengers are heading to/from the city, but a sensible place to start might be looking at the airport's data for where passengers originate, if it has that (I'd expect airlines are more likely to know than the airport), and factoring in growth of regional airports, peak plane, etc etc.

[johnneyw]

My guess is that there will be a dilution of the grand announcements to a study into the feasibility of a shuttle bus/coach from Nailsea and Backwell station. It would mean needing a lot more trains stopping there, which the local populace would like. It would also mean a lot more local bus/coach traffic, which may not go down so well.

[Chris from Nailsea]

It would also require some considerable reconfiguration of the access road / turning bay / waiting area.

The station car park at Nailsea & Backwell has only recently been extended - and that took years and years of campaigning, delays and protests from local residents.

I can't see a shuttle bus/ coach happening. 

[John R]

It would also require some considerable reconfiguration of the access road / turning bay / waiting area.

The station car park at Nailsea & Backwell has only recently been extended - and that took years and years of campaigning, delays and protests from local residents.

I can't see a shuttle bus/ coach happening. 

And despite nearly tripling in size, I noticed on wed is within a few cars of being full again, just 2 years later.




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[grahame]

My guess is that there will be a dilution of the grand announcements to a study into the feasibility of a shuttle bus/coach from Nailsea and Backwell station. It would mean needing a lot more trains stopping there, which the local populace would like. It would also mean a lot more local bus/coach traffic, which may not go down so well.

Wasn't an (A2) bus tried from Nailsea and Backwell Station to the airport - http://www.nailseatowncouncil.gov.uk/documents/A2%20bus%20service%20parish%20council%20web%20copy.pdf
and
https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/Service_A2_web_0.pdf

The new A2 ‘Link’ bus service is ideal for anyone travelling to and around the centre of North Somerset. As well as linking Nailsea, Backwell, Bristol Airport, Congresbury, Claverham and Yatton, the A2 connects to major bus and rail routes providing convenient connections to Bristol and Weston-super Mare – it’s perfect for commuter journeys, local trips, leisure and shopping.

The service is designed to help people get to and from work in the area more easily. Operating Monday to Friday, between 5.07am to 12.15pm and 3.50pm and 6.45pm, the A2 runs hourly on a loop in both directions linking Nailsea, Backwell, Bristol Airport, Congresbury, Claverham and Yatton.

My understanding is that it has now morphed into something completely different, having been a quiet service north of the airport due (perhaps) to limited frequency and limited publicity even though it offered good value fares from / to the airport.

[trainer]

[
Wasn't an (A2) but tried from Nailsea and Backwell Station to the airport - http://www.nailseatowncouncil.gov.uk/documents/A2%20bus%20service%20parish%20council%20web%20copy.pdf
and
https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/Service_A2_web_0.pdf

This potentially useful service went past my front door for a short time, first journey at 05:40 but as the last departure to Clevedon was at about 6pm there was no usefulness if you had a later flight arrival. It was better if you wanted to get to Nailsea and Backwell station, but what was the point since, as has been pointed out, there is a 24hr frequent bus connection with Temple Meads and Bristol Bus station. The A2 now tries to fulfill the dual roles of an airport connection to Weston-super-Mare and be a village bus service and operates only between the airport and W-s-M. Most people don't want the 'run-around' before or after their hols or business meeting.

On the few occasions I used the A2 I was the only passenger between the airport and Backwell so it never (hem hem) took off with the paying public in that direction. Serving rural areas with buses in a generally affluent area is a big challenge.

[Noggin]

Now that Hinkley looks like going ahead , couldn't we ask the Chinese for some new shiny trams in a rather tasteful shade of fluorescent green, with orange uranium trim ?

Might the natural route for a rail link to Lulsgate Airport might now be south-facing - a somewhat longer (so less steeply graded) one through open countryside to Worle or Yatton, with direct train services every 30 minutes to Weston-super-mare, Bridgwater and Taunton.   With the local train that terminates at Weston from Bristol extended on to Taunton too, that gives a half-hourly service to each of Lulsgate and Temple Meads from Bridgwater, and a much improved Weston - Bridgewater service to tap in on the employment and accommodation pool in Weston for Hinkley.     Passengers landing at Lulsgate for Bristol City Centre would have an easy change at Worle which already has a wheelchair friendly bridge, and if Cross Country stopped at Worle too that would give the airport easy links to the Cheltenham Spa area,  and Taunton and west, with a single change and without the need to use the congested space from the airport down the hill into Bristol.   Written tongue in cheek ... yet the more I write ... 

Well, you may jest, but there's the old Strawberry Line alignment ready made out of Yatton Station, space for a southern side to the triangle, a reasonably clear alignment and plenty of land to the north of the Airport that you could build a station on (potentially as the basement of a new terminal building or car park). By my reckoning it needs about 6km of new track, mostly through woodland and you'd have to climb about 120m (assuming that the station was in a fairly deep box), which shouldn't be too taxing, particularly for electric stock.

It would obviously work well as a part of the Bristol Metro, and with a direct link to Weston it would tick lots of boxes for North Somerset Council. So that's basically all the local authorities benefiting (Bristol, South Glouc, BANES, North Somerset), so they might finally have a transport project they all agree with and feel they can contribute too.

Of course the big issue is that finding an alignment through well-heeled outer suburbs is going to be tricky, and the lower part of the alignment is about 10m above sea level, so even tunnelling may not be that straightfoward. It would also probably need to be electrified.